45, 9mm, and 4.6mmHK

[Evil Monkey]

What a bunch.

Check out these videos.

Truck.....I mean 45acp vs gelatin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiCbhQdlHRs

9mm vs gelatin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzsFY6768WY

4.6mm vs gelatin (look how fast it slows down, but look at the temp cavity!)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2vUtmvIyY4




And now the CRISAT tests.

45 vs CRISAT
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBPmDxEjyW4

9mm vs CRISAT
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXqWfqn5mhY

4.6mm vs CRISAT (what CRISAT?)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaQyy6FuL48

 

[ziadel]

wow, you really are right, the 4.6 does make a huge cavity.


just the sight of that is horrific.

I want one

 

[Isildur]

Yeah it's probably only a question of time until these small light-weight pistol rounds will conquer the pistol market, like the .223 did on the rifle market.

But as far as I can see there aren't many pistols in that caliber yet?! Would probably be interesting to have a (sub-)compact Glock in 4,6x30...

 

[El Tejon]

Ummm, if the tiny calibers are to conquer the pistol market, then they will have to do better than the actual shootings we are getting over here in the States.

 

[Isildur]

Mhh what are you referring to? Any negative experiences with these calibers?

 

[Evil Monkey]

Ummm, if the tiny calibers are to conquer the pistol market, then they will have to do better than the actual shootings we are getting over here in the States

You've caught my attention. Please tell us what has happened in actual shootings.

For military use, these small caliber high velocity rounds are hard to beat for PDW use. They can penetrate armor, 9mm can't. That's all it takes for them to be superior. Non-combatants barely get into firefights anyhow so the lethality would be "good enough". It is a _defense weapon_ after all.

The russians have taken a different approach by improving upon the 9mm. They have a hot 9x21mm and 9x30mm and both have a protruding steel core. It is claimed that they can penetrate body armor up to 100 meters away. The idea was to keep the large round but have it AP capable. It looks like they use these rounds and their weapons more in offensive CQB operations than as a PDW.

 

[HorseSoldier]

For military use, these small caliber high velocity rounds are hard to beat for PDW use. They can penetrate armor, 9mm can't. That's all it takes for them to be superior. Non-combatants barely get into firefights anyhow so the lethality would be "good enough". It is a _defense weapon_ after all.

Support troops in the current war are getting plenty of chances to employ their personal weapons during convoy operations and whatever else. Since the bad guys aren't wearing much body armor and since an M4 or an L85A2 and the like are compact enough but far superior performers to things like the P90 or MP7, the argument in favor of 5.7mm or 4.6mm for military use are pretty weak, really. Add in the logistical issues of giving your support troops a whole seperate ammunition stream and weapons that scream "shoot at me, I'm not a combat unit" and I just don't see them getting much mileage with major conventional military units/organizations.

Yeah it's probably only a question of time until these small light-weight pistol rounds will conquer the pistol market, like the .223 did on the rifle market.

The FN 5.7mm round has been around for a pretty decent amount of time. Five-Seven pistols (while they have their fans) are not really flying off the shelves, and no one has yet to chamber any other handgun for it. I don't see the HK 4.6mm round getting much more popular, even if they ever release the P46 (or whatever their calling the handgun counterpart to the MP7) for civilian sales.

 

[the naked prophet]

If soft body armor becomes fairly popular for criminals here in the US, I can see something like that taking off. I'd personally rather buy a pistol in 7.62x25 as some sort of modern double stack semiauto, but if I felt I was in danger from armored criminals, I'd trade my 9mm for a 5.7 or maybe even a 4.5 if I could get good quality expanding bullets that could still get through the armor.

 

[sithanas]

The main issue is that damage is done by the permanant cavity and not the temporary cavity - the 4.6mm is great if you're shooting at someone's liver or other non-elastic tissue, but in elastic tissue you still get a bigger hole from a 9mm or .45. No matter how you look at it, the 4.6 and 5.7mm rounds don't move fast enough out of a pistol to do the kind of rifle-type damage they're designed to inflict. They're great last-ditch guns and fantastic against armour, but certainly won't replace the idea of large bullets anytime soon.