45 Acp For Bear?
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janobles14
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i usually dont argue with caliber choice much (.223 for deer is fine with me). but in no way is a .45 remotely good for bear. they are thicker and tougher than most animals and require some ooomph to penetrate.
your choices are much better and props for the XTP as well.
your choices are much better and props for the XTP as well.
krs
Member
'Course, the dog could have been scared at it's first sight of a cow.
cows are formidable things from a dog's perspective, and if it was dusk the sudden quiet appearance of such a large moving mysterious and shadowy other being might litter-ally scare the crap of of the overly happy pupplike innocent that is a young dog.
Sheer terror if the cow mooo'ed.
cows are formidable things from a dog's perspective, and if it was dusk the sudden quiet appearance of such a large moving mysterious and shadowy other being might litter-ally scare the crap of of the overly happy pupplike innocent that is a young dog.
Sheer terror if the cow mooo'ed.
ZeBool
Member
While I do believe that .45 ACP is light for bear, I feel that it would be sufficient to ward off an attack. Black bears are thinned skinned and relatively timid, and one most certainly would not enjoy taking a 230 grain round to the chest, let alone 7 or 8. Unless of course you have a .44 Magnum, then what the hey, right? Take that!
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
That my friend, is internet BS!
1,000 to 1 odds he simply missed the bear completely!
rcmodel
natural marksman
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We don't have bears in Australia. I've never shot at a living thing before, but I remember once I saw a documentary on tv about bears...
According to the experts, quoting from the documentary:
if you get on your tummy, cover your head with your hands and let the bear rough you up a bit - poke or jab you - he'll get the idea that you're no threat to him and that you're not worth the effort.
Just note this: if a bear is absolutely desperate for food, that is the only time he'll try to EAT a person.
Leave him alone and give him the impression that you're harmless, and he'll bugger off!
If I had to shoot a bear, I'd use a gun chambered for .30-06 like an M1 Garand. My uncle shoots kangaroos and wild pigs with a bolt-action .30-06, and I've heard the kick is tremendous! If so, it has to be powerful enough to kill a bear.
Yeah so, use the gentle leader collars - they are designed to make your dog behave and they work - and preferably carry something bigger than a .45 ACP. If not, flee from the bear, and if he catches up to you, get low and stay calm.
According to the experts, quoting from the documentary:
if you get on your tummy, cover your head with your hands and let the bear rough you up a bit - poke or jab you - he'll get the idea that you're no threat to him and that you're not worth the effort.
Just note this: if a bear is absolutely desperate for food, that is the only time he'll try to EAT a person.
Leave him alone and give him the impression that you're harmless, and he'll bugger off!
If I had to shoot a bear, I'd use a gun chambered for .30-06 like an M1 Garand. My uncle shoots kangaroos and wild pigs with a bolt-action .30-06, and I've heard the kick is tremendous! If so, it has to be powerful enough to kill a bear.
Yeah so, use the gentle leader collars - they are designed to make your dog behave and they work - and preferably carry something bigger than a .45 ACP. If not, flee from the bear, and if he catches up to you, get low and stay calm.
N.M., whoever told you that hasn't done much shooting of .30-06 rifles. The recoil of most .30-06 rifles, including the M1 Garand (That was my issue weapon while in the U.S. Army) isn't punishing. I've no idea whatsoever how many rounds of .30-06 I've fired in many types of rifles and have no problem with them. Now moving up to the various .300 Magnums and .338 Magnums can make it hard on your shoulder, but when your shoulder begins to ache, why continue?
Ask your uncle if he'll allow you to shoot his. I'll bet you'll enjoy it.
As for Black bears not wanting to harm you but just push you around a bit, whoever made that statement in the documentary is very, very badly misinformed.
If a Black bear decides to attack you, he is coming to kill you and eat you. "Playing dead," will get you dead.
Trying to second guess the intentions of an attacking bear, Black or Griz, is sheer folly!
L.W.
I once shot a big doe with my Thompson Center Contender, in .44 Magnum. Distance? She was nearly touching the base of my 12' metal ladder stand I was in when I touched off the round. The gun barrel was between both boots. I mean, I could have JUMPED on that doe! The distance that bullet traveled was probably six or seven feet at the most!!!
The bullet? 240 grain Hornady XTP. She ran off and I was stunned. For three hours I could find no blood at all and finally gave up.
TWO WEEKS LATER another hunter on my club harvested that big doe that casually walked into a food plot about 300 yards away to begin eating. When he skinned her . . . there was my Hornady 240 grain XTP bullet!!!
It mushroomed on bone and didn't penetrate or do any real damage . . . just some mild infection around the entrance. As I said, it was just under the hide and it FELL OUT when the deer was skinned!!!
I IMMEDIATELY SWITCHED to Federal 300 grain Castcore, hard cast flat-nose lead bullets . . . and have never looked back.
I SAY THIS BECAUSE . . .
If a .44 Magnum XTP bullet fails ya at six feet on a thin-skinned, easy to kill whitetail . . . I don't think I'd want to bet my life on ANY expanding bullet from any handgun stopped a running bear at six feet . . . especially in a .45ACP caliber!
And if I had to carry a handgun for bear defense, it would be a real heavy, flat nosed hard cast lead bullet. Elmer Keith proved how good they worked decades ago!!!
T.
BHP FAN
Member
I'd trust a 250 gr..45 Keith style round nose flat point hard cast lead ..45 Colt though,not ACP,unless that was just what I had on me.
Highland Ranger
Member
How does the joke go? just make sure you file off the sight on the 45 so when you are done shooting and the bear stuffs the gun up your pooper it doesn't hurt as much?!
Kidding aside - 44mag at least for the big ones we see around here. My guess is they are 500lbs. I have been up close an they are significantly bigger than me.
As far as the dog goes, we have a lovable 110lb lab who is a great dog the best with kids and goes absolutely nuts like genetic enemy nuts when he sees a bear. He absolutely will charge and don't even think of holding the leash.
It would be better for both of you if you could avoid a confrontation.
When the kids and he were young, he would block them from going in the yard if there was a bear out there. Now that they are older he has definitely gone from playing defense to playing offense.
I've watched rookie cops called by folks who move here from more citified parts go chasing them with an air horn and a .40S&W . . . . bad move. The air horn often works but if it ever doesn't, I'd want to be holding more than a 40 or 45
Oh and I second the heavy cast lead recommendation. My 629 sits with 300gr lead flat nose rounds - I'd wouldn't trust a hollow point to get through their tuff hide.
Kidding aside - 44mag at least for the big ones we see around here. My guess is they are 500lbs. I have been up close an they are significantly bigger than me.
As far as the dog goes, we have a lovable 110lb lab who is a great dog the best with kids and goes absolutely nuts like genetic enemy nuts when he sees a bear. He absolutely will charge and don't even think of holding the leash.
It would be better for both of you if you could avoid a confrontation.
When the kids and he were young, he would block them from going in the yard if there was a bear out there. Now that they are older he has definitely gone from playing defense to playing offense.
I've watched rookie cops called by folks who move here from more citified parts go chasing them with an air horn and a .40S&W . . . . bad move. The air horn often works but if it ever doesn't, I'd want to be holding more than a 40 or 45
Oh and I second the heavy cast lead recommendation. My 629 sits with 300gr lead flat nose rounds - I'd wouldn't trust a hollow point to get through their tuff hide.
BHP FAN
Member
I'd say that 629 with heavy hard cast Keith style bullets would be good bear medicine.
Dogbite
Member
According to the experts, quoting from the documentary:
if you get on your tummy, cover your head with your hands and let the bear rough you up a bit - poke or jab you - he'll get the idea that you're no threat to him and that you're not worth the effort.
Just note this: if a bear is absolutely desperate for food, that is the only time he'll try to EAT a person.
Leave him alone and give him the impression that you're harmless, and he'll bugger off!
------------------------------
Several people have tried this "expert" advice in Alaska. Some got huge disfiguring bites in their backs/necks legs, and were crippled for life. A much bigger percentage are now in the morgue. I remember one fellow who took ONE swipe from a large brown and it took his nose, and most of his face off. Yeah, let him "rough you up a bit".
if you get on your tummy, cover your head with your hands and let the bear rough you up a bit - poke or jab you - he'll get the idea that you're no threat to him and that you're not worth the effort.
Just note this: if a bear is absolutely desperate for food, that is the only time he'll try to EAT a person.
Leave him alone and give him the impression that you're harmless, and he'll bugger off!
------------------------------
Several people have tried this "expert" advice in Alaska. Some got huge disfiguring bites in their backs/necks legs, and were crippled for life. A much bigger percentage are now in the morgue. I remember one fellow who took ONE swipe from a large brown and it took his nose, and most of his face off. Yeah, let him "rough you up a bit".
Well, things are different in Canada. Down here in the states, our black bears average 100-200 lbs for a sow, maybe 250 or so for a boar.
A hell of a lot of men have successfully fought off black bears with hands and feet down here. Some have even killed them barehanded. A .45 is fine. You're not going up against an Abrams tank here.
DO NOT play dead for a black bear. You will DIE. Do it for a griz or brown. The guy above is quoting from a grizzly bear attack scenario.
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/852155/black_bear_vs_grizzly_bear_attacks.html
MikePGS
Member
Whenever I hear about someone climbing a tree to avoid a bear, it brings to mind this clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktHQ-Z5WJdc
Highland Ranger
Member
Sounds like that expert that went to live with them with his girlfriend.
They were both eaten.
I think bears are always desperate for food.
In northwest NJ, we have seen several black bears that have to be 500 pounds. The bear issue here is political, (anti-hunters from the city) so the 200lb myth and the they won't hurt you myth are continually put forth by the press.
Luckily the school system teaches the kids bear safety - being actually responsible for the safety of people and not reckless humans must die so that that nature can live environmentalists (and they mean other humans, not themselves).
My brother shot a video with a bear walking past the hood of his Jimmy/blazer and you can see the bear over the top of the hood. Big animal. Not 200lbs.
Had one scare the crap out of me walking to the car, I was 20 feet from him when he came out of the fog. I am big, twice the size of an average male and he was MUCH bigger than me . . . . in the cold mist, his breath was shooting out in a billowing cloud MUCH bigger than a human makes. Thank God he was old and didn't feel like mixing it up.
The 200lb males are in North Carolina. The premium garbage fed bears in Northwest NJ get bigger.
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