.45 ACP Hodgdon Universal

[bthorn9435]

Alright guys I am getting started in reloading only to find out obtaining
powder is like winning the lottery. I was able to get my hands on some
Universal by Hodgdon and to my surprise the data available for .45 ACP
is not as good as with other powders. I plan on shooting a 230GR Berrys Plated
Round Nose Bullet and would like some guidance on this. The weapon I will use
is a RIA GOVT 1911.

 

[Wil Terry]

UNIVERSAL is superb in the 45ACP cartridge, PERIOD !!!

And so it goes...

 

[Reloadron]

From our friends at Berry's Bullets.

We recommend using hard cast load data or start with mid-range jacketed data. Make sure data is below 1250fps unless you are using a Thick-Plated bullet that we list a higher max velocity for like the 9mm 124gr HBRN-TP that can be shot to 1500fps in open class guns like a .38 Super. Keep in mind that since our plated bullet has the same pressure curve as a hard cast bullet, the published cast data will be very close to what you will get with our plated bullets. If you use Jacketed data with our plated bullets you can get from 5% - 8% increase in velocity using that data.

With that in mind Speer #12 manual puts a 230 grain TMJ bullet using Hodgdon Universal between 5.5 gr and 6.3 gr. I would start around 5.8 gr or 5.9 gr. You will find a wide range of load data for the 45 ACP using either 230 grain LRN hard cast bullets or 230 grain FMJ or TMJ bullets. Depending on manual loads will vary slightly along with bullet seating depth. I am merely suggesting where I would start and what I would try. Working from the Berry's data work up your own start load using the manual of your choice.

Ron

 

[Dudedog]

I like around 5 - 5.2gr with the RMR 230 plated, but it seats a bit deeper than some others. Couldn't decide if I liked 5 or 5.2 best.
Hodgdon data
230 GR. HDY FMJ FP Hodgdon Universal .451" 1.200" 5.1 716 11,800 CUP 5.6 844 16,800 CUP
230 GR. LRN Hodgdon Universal .452" 1.200" 4.5 703 11,400 CUP 5.4 857 16,800 CUP

Note - Speers starting charge is almost as High as Hodgdons MAX. Not saying it is wrong or bad just noting it. Different bullet probably different OAL. (=different amount of space left in the case after loading the bullet)
Note #2 - I am a chicken and always like to start low.
I would start at 5, then load some at 5.2, 5.4 and then decide if you want to go higher.
No chance of 5gr sticking a bullet and I doubt you will have any functioning issues there. (not to light to function properly, at least in my 2 1911s, full size and Commander)
Different manuals almost always have different #s. (The Lee manual reprints other data so there you will see matches)

Are the loads for practice or SD. Most paper targets won't notice 20-50fps in velocity so I like to load most of my practice ammo about midrange, with some full power stuff thrown in every now and then.

Universal is clean and meters well, I think you will be very happy with it.
(also works great in 9mm)

I may have chrono #s for the loads, I will have to check.
Had some issues and lost some of my chrono data.

 

[Slamfire]

I went and tested Universal in a 45 ACP with 230 Lead bullets. My data is in this thread:

HP-38 vs. Universal

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=795251&highlight=universal

 

[bthorn9435]

These are strictly for target / recreation. I have not ventured into competition shooting
at this time. For now I leave the self defense ammo to the experts. My goal with reloading is to be able to safe money, learn a new hobby / obsession and be able to shoot more. Great advice guys keep it rolling!

 

[Walkalong]

to my surprise the data available for .45 ACP
is not as good as with other powders

Not good as in how?

It's a good powder, and Hodgdon has plenty of free data on the web.

 

[bthorn9435]

I checked their site and searched everywhere I could and the data set for that powder in my caliber isn't as prevalent as others. Any links you can provide would be appreciated.

 

[bthorn9435]

Another thing that was confusing was the naming. I saw mention of Universal Clays but the bottle I have just says Universal. I have seen it mentioned if it states Universal it is the Universal Clays. I could see where someone could get that and Clays crossed and load the ammo incorrect.

 

[Walkalong]

Yea, Clays, Universal Clays, and International Clays. They really confuse folks. Most folks just say "Universal", but it means Universal Clays.

http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol

230 GR. HDY FMJ FP
Starting Loads
Maximum Loads
Manufacturer
Powder
Bullet Diam.
C.O.L.
Grs.
Vel. (ft/s)
Pressure
Grs.
Vel. (ft/s)
Pressure
Hodgdon
Universal
.451"
1.200"
5.1
716
11,800 CUP
5.6
844
16,800 CUP

This is Hornady's 230 Gr TrFP, so it is loaded short at 1.200, but isn't much deeper in the case than a RN at 1.260.

I like the Berrys 230 Gr RN, but haven't used Universal with them. I would stop at 5.4 Grs just to be safe since it is plated and a RN. Load it to 1.260/1.265 OAL. Start at 5.1 and work up.

 

[John3921]

There are three powders in the Clays family. Clays, Universal Clays, and International Clays. You don't want to mix them up. Clays is rather like 700x, Universal is is similar to Unique, and International is more like Green Dot.

I've been loading Clays in my .45 acp. 4.2 gr w/ 200 gr SWC if I remember correctly.

 

[Dudedog]

I can't seem to dig up my chrono data but I will load some up and try to chrono this weekend for you. I Have the RMR 230 RN and some Hornady 230 FMJs.
I will load some 5, 5.2 and 5.4.

 

[bthorn9435]

Dudedog,

That would be awesome I was thinking about 5.2 and 5.4 myself with an OAL of 1.25. Book calls for a 1.20 Minimum.

 

[12Bravo20]

I use 5.2Gr of Hodgdon Universal with 230Gr plated bullets all the time. I like to use the beginning charge (lowest) recommended for jacketed bullets when reloading plated bullets. I use Universal for all my pistol reloading in .380, 9mm, 9mm Largo, .40S&W, and .45ACP with good results in all of them.

 

[bthorn9435]

12Bravo,

That was my thought process as well. When I first got the Universal I was worried I should have waited and gotten Tite-Group. After further research and help from the forum I feel much better about Universal and I am looking forward to using it. My gear will be here in a week so it should be exciting. I have spent the better part of a month absorbing as much info as possible in preparation for my first time reloading.

 

[Dudedog]

I like Universal MUCH better that Titegroup, lots of reasons but better case fill is one of them. A much better powder than Titegroup for someone starting out. IMO
It also works much better with lead bullets.
I tried for the whatever it was two years that it was unavailable.
One of my favorite powders.

Will try to get the rounds loaded Wed or Thur night after work.

 

[Walkalong]

I plan on shooting a 230GR Berrys Plated
Round Nose Bullet

I was thinking about 5.2 and 5.4 myself with an OAL of 1.25. Book calls for a 1.20 Minimum.

The 1.200 load was for a 230 Gr truncated Flat Point. You need to load the Round Nose longer. Load it at 1.260 to 1.265 OAL and it will be close to the same depth in the case, which is what you need to worry with as far as pressure goes.

 

[bthorn9435]

Walkalong,

That's where reloading gets precarious for me when I see data that can be "misinterpreted". The quote below is direct from Hodgdon based on the same
specs I provided here. In this mans humble opinion I have trouble reconciling that data to what I have read. Of course as Dennis Miller says "That's just my opinion I could be wrong."


"Your charge weight will be 5.1-5.56 grains and your OAL will be approximately 1.200"

 

[Walkalong]

Were they talking about the Hornady 230 TrFP?

If so, the correct OAL is 1.200. Also if it is, and you then substitute a RN, and you seat the RN that deep the pressures will be higher.

 

[Dudedog]

I forgot to say welcome to THR.
Welcome!

Think about it this way, how much of the bullet is in the case?
It varies depending on the shape of the bullet.
The RMR 230 RNs will have a shorter OAL than some others because of the shape for example.
OAL comes in to play in feeding/chambering and pressure. Sometimes you need to adjust the OAL for proper feeding and chambering.
You will need to do the plunk test to get an OAL that will work in your gun.
Walkalong had a great post about it. (will dig up the link after dinner)
Less space in the case = higher pressure. Which may or may not be bad depending. You could have one bullet that is taking up more space in the case that has a longer OAL than a different bullet for example.

You need to consider OAL and think about it but don't overthink it.
At starting/medium charges you have some leeway.
MAX charges are a different story.

 

[Walkalong]

The "Plunk" test. Inspired by questions just like this.

 

[Dudedog]

Got some loaded up but it looks like it is going to rain on me tomorrow.
Oh well we need the rain here in CA.
I will shoot for next weekend.
Sorry about the delay but I will get the info for you.

 

[bthorn9435]

Not a problem as I still have gear rolling in. Got my Lee Hand Press and Dies in the other day. Deprimed/Resized all of the brass, I love the hand press!!! I don't have a dedicated area for a press so this was my best option. I tell you guys if you've never wet tumbled with a Rock tumbler and stainless steel pins this is the way to go. I got a rock tumbler from Harbor Freight and some SS pins, add some dawn/lemishine and let her go for around 3 hours. I did a water change at 1.5 hours. Brass looks spotless. Placed in oven at 200 Degrees for 20 minutes and it comes out dry and cools within minutes.

 

[styles]

I also love the hand press and have a hard time convincing myself to use the bench press I have. It's more convenient to take the hand press anywhere I want to be than to sit in the garage.

I couldn't get the wet tumble itch, but I see why many do and have tried to reinvent the wheel as it were.

I bring my shells in and dump them in treated media in a cheaper tumbler for 10 minutes to get the bulk of the grime off them. I then deprime with the hand press without sizing (universal decap). I sonic clean them for 20 minutes and then I tumble them again for 10 more minutes in untreated media to dry them. I then run them thru the sizer with the decap to make sure no media is in the flash hole and then I prime them in the ram prime. I store the primed cases in plastic tubs for reloading during he weeknights. I like using the universal dies and saving my pistol dies for loading. The hand press excels with these. With tighter tolerances the hand press has too much wobble in my view to be as efficient. Still works tho!

My point is: there is no right or wrong to this and I think case prep or hand press comes down to personal preference. I like to run things lightly. I think I am keeping the media fairly clean and unloaded which keeps the tumbler case and motor healthy. Maybe I am, maybe not.

My thought process is to bulk/batch oriented, I won't fiddle with individual cases much, but I want shined, clear primer and flash holes.

I am reusing the tumbler media and it stays relatively clean a long time. I found most complaints about tumblers were cracked bowls, broken motors, and dust. By keeping he media from getting too loaded these three are easily prevented. Loaded media media is significantly heavier over time and overloads the small motors and plastic bowls.

If there are common complaints about pin/wet tumbling you could do the same system technique to solving those in your process. The time seems like a problem to me. I decided I would pre-soak if I wet tumbled. I think a five gallon bucket with a grit guard and a cap of rinse less wash would cut your tumblr time to an hour or less, maybe 30 minutes. You still have to dry, as do I, with the sonic or wet. I am not allowed to bring gun stuff into the kitchen... But if I were I would not use up another 2 hours before I tried my clean media tumble dry.

 

[gwpercle]

Buy some reloading manuals, Lyman makes two, Lyman Reloading Handbook 49th Edition and Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook 4th Edition , get both. along with Hornady, Speer and Lee manuals . There is way more information in the published books, all the info can not be in one , just too much , so that's the reason for having several. And you can cross reference data for comparison.
There is some good data on the sites, but I have found it woefully lacking in depth. Especially the powder manufacturer's sites, few bullets, few loads , it just seems they give one load for a few bullets.... The books will give you tons more data.
The Lyman and Speer books are the first ones I check .

Gary