.45 acp hornady 230gr HAP hp38 high velocity

[Big-bore-bob]

Hello all, I'm getting higher than book velocity on some uspsa loads I made up for this weekend using once fired brass, 230gr hornady HAP, 5.4gr hp38, winchester lpp, coal 1.235, crimp .4695- .4705. Avg 862fps, SD 14, ES 48. Loads are very accurate and recoil is lighter than factory wwb. Im seeing what may be slight flattening of the primers. Any idea what could cause this? I load 5.5gr all the time for fmj target loads and my velocity averages 820 with that load. The gun used is a hk usp expert 5.2in barrel.

 

[Otto]

A velocity increase of 5% isn’t something I’d stress over.
And reading spent primers is about as accurate as reading tea leaves.

 

[Walkalong]

Have pics of the primers?

5.4 Grs with a 230 Gr bullet is up there, but 862 isn't too bad. Maybe lengthen the OAL a bit, get the velo down some. And yes, lots of .45 ACP rounds have been sent downrange with 5.5 Grs W-231 and 230 Gr bullets, just be careful on the OAL.

Not all 230 Gr data goes as far as 5.5 these days.

 

[Big-bore-bob]

Hopefully you all can see those ok. I'm not too worried about hot loads in the usp as long as their not excessively over pressure, if any gun can take it this one can, the loads are for the usp expert only, to be used for uspsa this weekend. Thanks for the replies!

 

[vaalpens]

Got out to the range today to test some .45 acp uspsa loads for this weekend and I fired my test batches of 9mm power pistol. I took the charge down to 5.6, and tested at 5.8 again. Results for 5.6: SD 10.4, ES 39, avg 1239. 5.8: SD 12, ES 42, avg 1255. Still faster than it should be.... I'm confused. Ejection was fine at 5.6, about 5 feet of distance. Accuracy was good at 15 yds from the bench. Anymore ideas ?

Hello all, I'm getting higher than book velocity on some uspsa loads I made up for this weekend using once fired brass, 230gr hornady HAP, 5.4gr hp38, winchester lpp, coal 1.235, crimp .4695- .4705. Avg 862fps, SD 14, ES 48. Loads are very accurate and recoil is lighter than factory wwb. Im seeing what may be slight flattening of the primers. Any idea what could cause this? I load 5.5gr all the time for fmj target loads and my velocity averages 820 with that load. The gun used is a hk usp expert 5.2in barrel.

Maybe your loads are fine and you just have a problem with your chrono. Test some factory loads and see what velocities you get. Factory loads normally over promise and under deliver when it comes to velocity. If your results show a much higher velocity, then probably you have a faulty chrono, or is is not set up correctly.

 

[Big-bore-bob]

Maybe your loads are fine and you just have a problem with your chrono.

Some other members have suggested this as well, regarding my 9mm load workup using power pistol and 115 fmj. If you have a chance check out that thread. I can't afford another chrono right now, but I'm looking at getting a Lab radar as soon as my budget allows.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Hello all, I'm getting higher than book velocity on some uspsa loads I made up for this weekend using once fired brass, 230gr hornady HAP, 5.4gr hp38, winchester lpp, coal 1.235, crimp .4695- .4705. Avg 862fps, SD 14, ES 48. Loads are very accurate and recoil is lighter than factory wwb. Im seeing what may be slight flattening of the primers. Any idea what could cause this? I load 5.5gr all the time for fmj target loads and my velocity averages 820 with that load. The gun used is a hk usp expert 5.2in barrel.

What’s your anticipated velocity?
I can see up to a 5% difference between barrels using the same components assembled together as a batch so it doesn’t surprise me you’re seeing a difference between FMJ and the HAP bullets. The type of gilding metal used to form the jacket will make at least a few FPS difference.
If you’re more than 10% off the anticipated maximum velocity then back your charge down or lengthen the seat and see if it puts you closer.

 

[StrykerByte.45]

If anything it could be the crimp. 45acp shouldn't require a crimp and whoever you got your recipe from didnt crimp. In which case you would see higher pressures from crimping.
Not saying you dont have to crimp, but if you want less velocity with the method you use then you will have to reduce your charge. This is why its always suggested to start 10% less powder to compensate for any differences.

 

[Big-bore-bob]

What’s your anticipated velocity?

I thought it would be around 820ish. I needed fast slide cycling for the competition and major power factor, thats why i didnt go lower. The lower velocity loads I've made feel sluggish cycling the action on this particular pistol. I felt I needed to put a decent crimp and short coal on the the hap bullets so I got flawless cycling (the usp experts chamber is tight and the bullet is of the cone variety). Like a total noob I made up the whole batch of 200 already. I made a note in my data book to reduce the powder charge .2gr for the next go round. As far as testing factory loads with my chrono I ran some federal 115gr 9mm target rounds over the chrono, box says 1180fps I got an average of 1200.

 

[Walkalong]

Those primers look fine. I would still lower the load by .2 or lengthen the OAL to get below 850 FPS.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Those primers look fine. I would still lower the load by .2 or lengthen the OAL to get below 850 FPS.

Yup! ^^^^

I think you’re fine with those as they are.

 

[Big-bore-bob]

I think you’re fine with those as they are

So lower the charge for the next batch and run this batch? I could pull these an redo them but it would be a real pain.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

So lower the charge for the next batch and run this batch? I could pull these a redo them but it would be a real pain.

That’s what I would do. I have seen factory 10mm with worse flattening. Primers are notoriously fickle.

 

[murf]

maybe go with a 1.240" col with the same powder charge (make sure it plunks in your barrel).

I highly recommend you only change one variable at a time.

luck,

murf

 

[Walkalong]

I highly recommend you only change one variable at a time.

Always good advice, even if I don’t always follow it.

 

[murf]

Always good advice, even if I don’t always follow it.

I don't either. probably as much a reminder to myself as others.

murf

 

[Walkalong]

But then we end up wondering if it was both things we changed, or just one, and which one. Been there done that, likely do it again, hard headed ya know.

 

[Big-bore-bob]

Thanks for all the help! I'll let you all know how the rounds and match turn out tomorrow. Happy shooting!

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Thanks for all the help! I'll let you all know how the rounds and match turn out tomorrow. Happy shooting!

Good luck and have fun! Not necessarily in that order.

 

[Rule3]

Thanks for all the help! I'll let you all know how the rounds and match turn out tomorrow. Happy shooting!

I do not understand the issue or concern? You are not even into 45 +P range

You are very close to the Hodgdon data for regular 45 loads but they load to 1.200

 

[rsrocket1]

Your numbers are 17 fps slower than what Quickload predicts and the max pressure is about 19,200 psi. The Hodgdon website data only shows a FP FMJ 230g bullet at 1.200" COL with a max load of 5.3g HP38 and it predicts 832 fps with a 5.0" barrel. The Hodgdon data says nothing about the tightness of the chamber or if the chamber is stepped. My Walther PDP and HK VP9/40 have stepped chambers and they all chrony slightly higher than non stepped chamber guns with the same barrel lengths. I believe the HK USP also uses a stepped chamber. You can see the effects of the chamber by looking at fired brass and noting a slight necked down ring near the case mouth rather than a perfectly straight wall from back to front.

I would say you are fine. If the primers are truly flattening due to excessive pressures, you are well over 35,000 psi because these primers are expected to be used in 10mm, 44 mag and other guns with much higher Pmax than the 21,000 max pressure of 45ACP.

 

[Big-bore-bob]

You can see the effects of the chamber by looking at fired brass and noting a slight necked down ring near the case mouth rather than a perfectly straight wall from back to front.

This is interesting I've never heard about that. My usp definitely shoots a bit faster than my 1911 with identical ammo. Quickload sounds like a good resource also, thanks for the info!

 

[Big-bore-bob]

Well here's my update, I took 1st in production class woo! 27th overall out of 40 shooters, not too bad I think for my third competition ever. As far as the ammo no failures during course of fire, however on one make ready command I had a feed jam where the round got stuck halfway into the chamber from the magazine. I shot a bit after the competition with a few guys and two times I got the same type of jam. I'm not too familiar with this sort of malfunction. Any ideas as to what caused this issue? Ammo related?

 

[NMexJim]

1911 feeding diagnosis

A brief back story. RIA GI full size 45, that has had a overhaul on parts. Prior to my completion of this gun it cycled really well if it was sprung properly with the right ammo. The usual feed issue was the classic “nose dive”. I had replaced everything except the frame, slide and barrel...

www.thehighroad.org

There is an ongoing thread on 1911 feed issues that’s been pretty informative and may have some application for your HK. Worth a look.

 

[JHTexas]

You can see the effects of the chamber by looking at fired brass and noting a slight necked down ring near the case mouth rather than a perfectly straight wall from back to front.

This is interesting I've never heard about that. My usp definitely shoots a bit faster than my 1911 with identical ammo. Quickload sounds like a good resource also, thanks for the info!

The step is added to improve the chamber seal. You can see the impression left on the cases.