.45 ACP Keith Hardcast Info

[dubious]

I'm interested in loading a 230 gr Keith Hardcast bullet in my 1911. Anyone have any loads or links for bullets?

I'm convinced that it could be a good hunting round with maximum penetration for a .45 acp. Perhaps the right load could pass through a deer at a steeper angle if it suddenly moved as I took the shot. From my research, the hunters consensus is to use a XTP or Golden Saber... but it seems to me you'd want maxmium penetration. Am I wrong?

I've been checking out the Oregon Trails SWC Hardcast .452" bullet. I'm worried that its not .451". In the reviews on cabelas, people are saying its working with .45 acp. It says its .45... not .45 acp nor .45 colt. There is another bullet listed as .45 colt.

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/t..._-productname_link&cmCat=CRR&_requestid=83265

Check out this stellar performance on gelatin from brassfetcher.org. (He posts his stuff on THR just like this anyways, so I don't think he'll mind me stealing if from http://www.brassfetcher.com/45acpswc.html) :

Cartridge : 250 grain Americast Bullets hard cast lead flatpoint.

Firearm : Recoil-operated handgun with 5.0" barrel length.

Calibration : 11.7 ± 0.05cm and 618 ± 0.500 ft/sec impact velocity.

Cartridge consisted of 5.0gr of AA#2 with CCISPP. COAL was 1.250". Shot impacted the block at 827 ± 0.500 ft/sec, penetrated 16.0 ± 0.031" of gelatin and through ~10" of polyester-filled bullet arresting box. Projectile was not recovered, but appearance of wound track illustrates that minimal expansion took place.

 

[dubious]

So that's 16" of Penetration + 10" in the bullet arresting box. Isn't the bullet arresting box more resistance penetration than gelatin? Doesnt that mean this bullet penetrated massively?

 

[rcmodel]

I'm just not seeing any Keith style bullets in the Cabala's link you provided.

They show .452":
200 SWC-BB
230 RN-BB
200 RN-FP
250 RN-FP

Even going to the Oregon Trail website, I'm not finding any 230 Keith style bullets.
http://www.laser-cast.com/45Cal.html

They show one 255 grain SWC-BB, but it is not a Keith style either because it's a bevel-base bullet.

I'm thinking the bullet Brass-Fetcher tested was a normal .45 Colt RN-FP bullet.
They were designed in 1973 to shoot through horses!

rc

 

[dubious]

Your right, RC... I jumped the gun. I was equating SWC with Keith, but thats not true. And of course the flat point is 250gr and not a keith either. However, I think they did shoot it out of a "recoil operated" gun so it must be .45acp.

Anyways, since I've got your attention, RCModel... what do you know about .45 ACP Keiths and or SWCs?

 

[loadedround]

Dubious: I think you have everyone confused. I know I am. Keith bullets are a semi wad cutter design with a sharp shoulder designed by Elmer Keith and they are for revolver use only. I doubt if you could load and feed one through your 1911.

 

[justashooter in pa]

a true keith can be made to function in a properly tweaked 1911, but they really shine in a wheelgun. i load them with a significant charge of blue dot to about 1100 fps in an N frame 25-2. a 255 gr keith at that speed would punch a nice big round hole through an angled shoulder blade, rather than bouncing off and racing around under the skin rattling off ribs like any jacketed RNFP will do.

 

[loadedround]

Justashooter:
I agree with you in part and you can also drop a Hemi in a VW if you try hard enough. The only way you would get a loaded 255 gr Keith bullet to chamber in a 45 ACP would be to completely rechamber a 1911 barrel or have a custom barrel made. Also think of your recoil spring nightmares and redesigning your magazine lips to feed these monsters. Just for the hell of it, a half hour ago I went down to my workshop and my Dillon was set up for 45 ACP's, so I took an empty case and seated a 255gr Keith bullet used in my 45 Colt into the case to its crimping groove and removed any case flare. Guess what, it would not chamber...bullet was to long and case slightly bulged! Try it yourself...'nuff said.

 

[dubious]

Hey guys, sorry for the confusion... I should have done my homework better. What is the next best thing to having a keith bullet in a 1911? What loads have a chance of feeding reliably and have maximum penetration? Semi Wadcutters?

 

[rcmodel]

It would be hard to beat the old GI 230 RN-FMJ if maximum penetration is the only goal.
Unfortunately, it is not much as game bullets go.

I really think for deer hunting, it would be very hard to beat the 230 Hornady XTP, or Speer Gold-Dot.

They are both designed to expand and do maximum damage, as well as meet the FBI minimum penetration tests.

I would expect either one to enter through a deers rib cage, expand at least some through the lungs, and leave a big bleeding hole in it's wake.

The Keith SWC is best on really big game animals, where really deep penetration is needed.
I don't think the average whitetail qualifies as "really big" game.
You might get faster kills with a JHP in the heart lung area to bleed them out faster then just a .45 hole through them from a Keith SWC.

rc