I need your help once again I am loading 45 ACP for the first time and am using 230 FMJ RN bullets with CFE pistol powder. i checked 3 booked and neither of them had load data for CFE powder. I did find it on hodgdon reloading website. Says for a starting load I would load 5.2 Grs and max 6.2 Grs. I added 5.2 Grs into a case and it seems like it's barley anything. Could someone please confirm that that's what it should be? Also I disassembled a Herters round to compare bullets and what I found was that the Herters have a cutout on the bottom making it a "metal jacket" with lead centers ? I am using Rainier 230 grain and they do not have a cut out bottom making them a "FMJ"? or are they both FMJ just one has exposed lead center and the other does not? is this correct?
.45 ACP powder measure
- Thread starter zalex820
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Rainier's, I believe are plated bullets. Which is done by placing an electric charge somehow to a lead bullet (someone with more knowledge on this process can give you a better understanding), attracting copper to it. Resulting in a coating of copper evenly around the bullet.
The pulled bullet you have is basically a layer of copper formed onto the lead. Most of the jacketed bullets will have an opening somewhere, either the butt, or the point. (JHP, Jacketed-Soft-Points)
CFE Pistol is a fairly new powder on the block. So until bullet makers come out with their newer publications, Hodgdon, as far as I know, is the only source of published data.
I haven't loaded any 230 gr. bullets with CFE Pistol. I would say do a work up from the start to max.
The pulled bullet you have is basically a layer of copper formed onto the lead. Most of the jacketed bullets will have an opening somewhere, either the butt, or the point. (JHP, Jacketed-Soft-Points)
CFE Pistol is a fairly new powder on the block. So until bullet makers come out with their newer publications, Hodgdon, as far as I know, is the only source of published data.
I haven't loaded any 230 gr. bullets with CFE Pistol. I would say do a work up from the start to max.
oh ok thanks, thats great to know. I will do a little write up in that case and fool around with the loads a little.
zalex820, here in this thread, Toprudder posted his results with Xtreme plated 230 gr. and CFE Pistol.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=778142&highlight=CFE+pistol+45
YMMV.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=778142&highlight=CFE+pistol+45
YMMV.
Dudedog
Contributing Member
CFE is dense, denser than a lot of pistol powders. It has a low VMD of .0754,, (CC/GR=VMD) compared to say HP38 with a VMD of .092 or Promo with a VMD of .14 - Put another way 7.1gr of Promo takes up 1cc, 11gr of HP38 takes up 1cc, 13.3gr of CFE-Pistol takes up 1cc. (these are estimates only for space NOT recommend charges) so the same charge of Promo takes up almost twice as much space as and equal charge of CFE. Smaller VMD for a powder = less space for the same charge.
Because it is dense it takes up less space in the case, which can be a good or bad thing. Less case volume used makes it easier to miss a double charge. I do prefer powders that require smaller charges to be less dense so it is easier to spot a possible double charge.
So yes in .45 ACP with 5.4gr of CFE the case looks kind of empty.
I have not done a lot of tests with CFE but it does seem happier towards the heavier side of it's load range. (But start low and work up)
While I do use Titegroup and CFE-Pistol I would be happier if they were both a bit bulkier.
As the bullets go I generally load plated somewhere between lead and jacketed charges.
The #s from Hodgdon for LEad and Jacketed both show an OAL of 1.20"
230 GR. LRN
START 5.4gr 816 fps
MAX 6.2gr 942 fps
230 GR. HDY FMJ FP
Start 6gr 815 fps
MAX 6.8gr 934 fps
So 5.2 is a good place to start and should function your pistol fine. Different bullet shapes may require a different OAL than what is listed.
The thing to be aware of is that as you put more of the bullet into the case the pressure goes up due to less empty space in the case.
Even though you appear to have a lot of empty space in the case the OAL will still affect pressure.
You should do a "Plunk" test to help you determine the OAL that will work with your bullet. (search for plunk test here)
Be safe, enjoy and welcome to THR and reloading.
Because it is dense it takes up less space in the case, which can be a good or bad thing. Less case volume used makes it easier to miss a double charge. I do prefer powders that require smaller charges to be less dense so it is easier to spot a possible double charge.
So yes in .45 ACP with 5.4gr of CFE the case looks kind of empty.
I have not done a lot of tests with CFE but it does seem happier towards the heavier side of it's load range. (But start low and work up)
While I do use Titegroup and CFE-Pistol I would be happier if they were both a bit bulkier.
As the bullets go I generally load plated somewhere between lead and jacketed charges.
The #s from Hodgdon for LEad and Jacketed both show an OAL of 1.20"
230 GR. LRN
START 5.4gr 816 fps
MAX 6.2gr 942 fps
230 GR. HDY FMJ FP
Start 6gr 815 fps
MAX 6.8gr 934 fps
So 5.2 is a good place to start and should function your pistol fine. Different bullet shapes may require a different OAL than what is listed.
The thing to be aware of is that as you put more of the bullet into the case the pressure goes up due to less empty space in the case.
Even though you appear to have a lot of empty space in the case the OAL will still affect pressure.
You should do a "Plunk" test to help you determine the OAL that will work with your bullet. (search for plunk test here)
Be safe, enjoy and welcome to THR and reloading.
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RPegram
Member
Just for reference, I load 230 LRN hi-teck coated over 5.4 gr CFE Pistol and they do very well. My experience so far with this powder and 45acp is it does good in the lower powder weights. I'm no expert marksman by any stretch of the imagination, but these rounds group well for me with mild recoil. I'll normally shoot 30 or so rounds in a paper target on a rest at 25' and get 1.5" grouping out of the majority of shots.
To add...
The copper plating on a plated bullet is not as thick or durable as the jacket on a jacketed bullet.
Also, there are some FMJ bullets where they put a small copper disc on the base of the bullet so that the lead is completely enclosed. Unlike the plated bullets that are evenly coated over the entire bullet, the opening in the jacket is still obvious on the base of the bullet. The lead is just covered with a piece of copper.
Among other reasons, the fully jacketed or plated bullets address an air quality problem at indoor ranges. Some ranges will not allow shooters to use bullets with exposed lead. Higher concentrations of lead particulates get air borne when the bullet has some exposed lead.
The "metal" jacket (Cup shaped to start with before adding the core and shaping the bullet) and the lead center (The "core") A standard "cup and core" bullet. It could have been turned around and formed into a hollow point, and would still be a cup and core bullet. A jacket and a lead center formed together to the desired shape in a bullet sizing die. Part of a set to make bullets.
Two Hornady "encapsulated" bullets. Simply a standard cup and core bullet with a copper disc added at the base.
And of course "plated" bullets which are a shaped lead core with copper electroplated over its entire surface. Some with a thicker coating than others.
A hollow base round nose plated bullet. The entire bullet surface is covered.
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Sunray
Member
"...5.2 Grs and max 6.2 Grs..." It's 5.4 to 6.2 for a cast bullet. That'll do for your plated bullets too. A plated bullet is not a jacketed bullet.
However, your FMJ isn't plated or cast. It's jacketed. That's 6.0 to 6.8 of CFE.
The case looks kind of empty with a lot of powders. That's not something to worry about.
However, your FMJ isn't plated or cast. It's jacketed. That's 6.0 to 6.8 of CFE.
The case looks kind of empty with a lot of powders. That's not something to worry about.
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