45 ACP - Red Dot - Hornady 185 XTP

[mattsh]

Using the load data it shows that the load is:

5.7 - 5.9 gr powder
185 gr XTP bullet
Min OAL - 1.275"

So I load up 450 rds. I decide I need to go shoot some and what do ya know? The cartridge length is too long :banghead: for the 1911 magazines.

I went with the data in the book and it says that 1.275 is the min OAL, so it didn't even cross my mind that I needed to test any in the magazines.

So I did a lot of re-reading my Lee manuals in regards to changes of loads and determined that I could shorten them to 1.258" the overall cartridge length only changed by 1.4%.

It seems that reading around - the Hornady XTP's have to be loaded a little shorter - not sure why other than it probably has to do with the nose shape.

By-the-way, after I shortened 5 rds I went and shot them with factory WWB 230gr RN and felt no appreciable difference. I measured the fired cases and both the 185gr cases and the 230gr cases measured the same. The primers did not push out any. It would appear that pressures were well within limits.

Anyway - has anyone else experienced this? Where you had to go shorter on cartridge length due to using the XTP bullets? This is the first time I have loaded XTP bullets.

 

[Ol` Joe]

I don`t know what manual you are useing but the MAX SAAMI COL for the 45acp is 1.275", not the MIN.
The last couple editions of the Hornady books load their 185gr XTP to 1.230". It pays to use data for the specific bullet you are loading if possible. The geometery of the different brands and styles will alter seating depths and in some cases make a certain tight lenght range almost mandatory.

BTW the 4th edition of Hornadies book lists 5.1 gr of Red Dot as max at 1.230". The newer editions don`t list Red Dot. I hope you are starting low and working up.....

 

[mattsh]

Ol' Joe - fascinating - 1.230" Min OAL - The manual I am using is the LEE second edition. Makes me wonder if it was a typo.

Thanks for the info.

Anybody else have input?

 

[The Bushmaster]

Lyman's 48th edition shows .45 ACP 185 grain XTPs at 1.175. Sierra Vth edition shows their .45 ACP 185 grain at 1.212. I load XTPs at 1.190.

Where are you getting this measurment of 1.275 for 185 grain XTPs?

 

[rjbishop]

Read that 2nd edition Lee Modern Reloading again....

185gr XTP shows 1.210 min OAL, and it does NOT show any XTP load for Red-Dot. Red-Dot is given for 185gr FMJ, and that load does show 1.275 min OAL (probably to watch out for pressure spike with that powder).

I also like Red-Dot for some loads, but you really have to watch pressure spikes (especially in 9MM where I use it).

 

[mattsh]

well..... I stand corrected - thanks rj

The load data I was looking at was the FMJ data and not the XTP data. -- my bad

So far there are no indications that what I have is dangerous. The 1.210 is a lot shorter than the 1.258 I loaded mine to.

The Lee book does not show Red Dot for XTP bullets.

Ol' Joe - what does the Hornady book say for the Red Dot 5.1 gr at 1.230 - what are the velocity and the pressure values ?

Does anyone else have Red Dot 185 gr XTP data ?

Bushmaster - are the loads you listed for Red Dot powder?

 

[The Bushmaster]

Nope...I use AA #7 for my full sized Colt 1911 and WSF for my Kimber UCC II.

 

[Marlin 45 carbine]

I use RDot for cast slugs in my .45acp loads (all other pistols too including .357 mag) w/good results. cleaner than B Eye.
Power Pistol for jacketed.

 

[Mark whiz]

I've used 6.0gr of Red Dot with 185gr Rem Golden Sabres with pretty good results. Those were loaded to an OAL of 1.245", which is what I also load XTPs to in 200 and 230gr weights.

 

[Ol` Joe]

Ol' Joe - what does the Hornady book say for the Red Dot 5.1 gr at 1.230 - what are the velocity and the pressure values ?

Hornady lists no pressures but the load is the max they recommend so I would supect it is at the top. This is a older edition manual (1991) and done prior to modern pressure testing methods.
Velocity claimed is 900 fps, this is moot as I`m pretty sure your velocity will vary from it one way or the other. The book speeds rarely work out in the real world when clocked.

You might want to contact Hornady on their "tech line" 1-800-338-3220
and ask about useing 45 Auto Rim data. Their latest manual lists Red Dot with the 185gr XTP. I won`t give the loads but they are heavier then the old 45acp data loads. I believe the cartridges are the same except for the rim/headspace method used.

 

[Shoney]

mattsh et al

FYI older Alliant data lists

45ACP
Fed 150
5.9 gr Red Dot max
185 gr JHP
Min OAL (no listing in the column under this designation down the page)
1.275" 5 (listed in the next column over with no designation on OAL, just barrel length above the column)

It would be very very easy to incorrectly conclude 1.275" was the Min OAL by looking at the data.

 

[mattsh]

well everyone - looks like I need to contact Hornady to see what they have to say about their XTP bullets and Red Dot for 45 ACP.

 

[mattsh]

Update - before I got to contact Hornady, I was at a gun show today and looked at the most recent edition of the Lyman manual.

In 45 ACP for 185 graing hollow points, it lists Red Dot.

3.1 - 6.0gr with C.O.L. of 1.175"

So my load of 5.8gr at 1.258" seems to be well within the limits.