.45 and .40 snakeshot recipe

[Tmitchell49]

I posted this on another site but figured I'd do it here as well.

Hey everyone, I’m fairly new to reloading (being doing it for about a year) and have learned a lot from reading various posts on this site. Thank you for all the knowledge shared. I have a question/recipe I’d like to share for you to poke holes in (pardon the pun) or provide constructive feedback. My concerns are based on use of the case and possible pressure concerns.

Object: Develop a snake/rat shot for .45ACP and .40 cal semi-auto pistol.

.45 is Sig 220 and .40 is Sig 229 and Glock 23. I haven’t shot these but have made a few of each.

Recipes worked up:
.45 ACP – Used standard case, standard Winchester primer, 5.5gr of Unique, cardboard wad over powder, 80gr of #9 lead shot, topped off with a 135gr (based on scale) .451 round lead ball taper crimped to an OAL of 1.1 – 1.135 (1.1, 1.125(2) and 1.135(2)). In trial chambering it has cycled with no problem.

My real concern; .40 cal – Used 10mm and realized real quick the case was too long and noticed that on the CCI it’s necked down like a .357sig case. Is there a die that could do this for a 10mm case? Does it even make sense? So from there, I used a traditional .40 case, Winchester primer, 5gr of Unique, cardboard wad over powder, 60gr of #9 lead shot, topped off with a 93gr (based on scale) .395 round lead ball taper crimped to an overall length of 1.010. I believe part of why these rounds are shorter is getting the ball far enough in the case to get it to seat and put a crimp.

What I’m I not thinking about here. I’ve read other posts where they use a .410 plastic wad to hold the shot; others where they use a .45 Win Mag or .308 cases to get OAL. I get it’s just easier to buy the CCI shotshells but it’s more fun and cheaper to have a project. I want to make sure I’m being safe and that’s why I’m asking for feedback.

 

[Steve Koski]

I've done similar things goofing around. Fandango Fire and all that.

The only thing I would do is back off the powder charge and work up. I think your charge weights are fine if you had a normal COL. But with your short COLs and reduced powder space, I'd take a grain and a half out of your loads, and then work up .5 grains at a time.

Save the loads you've made so far, and shoot them AFTER you've shot the 3.5, 4.0, and 4.5 grain loads.

Koski

 

[PapaG]

RCBS, I believe, a few years back sold dies to make 45 acp shotshells. You used 308 brass, ran them up into a die, cut the excess off, filed it smooth, deburred, then ran it through another die I think that put a neck on it or a shoulder like a loaded acp round. You used 410 wads, either a hard card or a buckshot over the shot and crimped. Supposed to feed and function in an acp auto.
Midway had them but I don't see them listed anymore. Wish I'd bought a set. Gotta be some out there somewhere,.

 

[GooseGestapo]

I do it a little differently.

I use Bullseye instead of the bulkier Unique or Universal. If not Bullseye, try HP38/Win231. This allows more shot in the small cases.

I use cardboard wads cut with a Lee bullet sizer. Substitute a cardboard wad for the round ball. You'll get more shot in the case and hence a better pattern.

As far as the .45acp case is concerned, you could possibly use the .45WinMag case cut to length and necked down in a .44mag/.44spl carbide die for the length you'd need. Lee sells them seperate. Much, Much cheaper than the specialized RCBS dies.

Easier yet, is to use a .45colt revolver....... I get 0.40oz of #9's over 5.0gr of Bullseye. From my .410 o/u it's almost as effective as a regular 1/2oz .410 load. Much, Much cheaper and easier to load for, too.

 

[rcmodel]

you could possibly use the .45WinMag case cut to length

I did it years ago using cut-off 30-06 or .7.62 NATO brass.

Only differance was I star crimped them.

rc

 

[clone]

rcmodel,

What did you use to get the star crimp?

 

[rcmodel]

I made a crimper.

I think it was just a thin steel V-shape affair in the end of a slotted 7/8x14 bolt thread.
Had to turn the shell a couple of times to start all the stars.
Then finished it off by running it into smaller die body far enough to finish folding them in.

But it's been so long ago I ain't sure!

Here are some .380 ACP shotshells I made out of .223 brass.
Turned down on a mini-lathe to form the thin mouth and headspace shoulder.
I folded the crimp on them by hand one by one with a thin screwdriver blade.

Turned out to be a waste of time, as they don't hold enough shot to be real useful.





rc

 

[ssyoumans]

Nice artwork.

 

[medalguy]

I have a set of the RCBS .45 ACP shotshell dies I bought many years ago. I still use them to make 45 shot ammo which I carry when hiking in the mountains. I've dispatched several good sized rattlesnakes with this combo. They will cycle the action of my 1911.

Like PapaG says, use a .410 shot cup to contain the #9 shot, then use a .35 cal gas check turned around on top to hold everything nice and tight. The crimping die puts a nice roll-over crimp on the end of the case. These can be reloaded many times if you are quick enough to see where the brass went.

 

[Paladin38-40]

Snake shot = snake oil

We did quite a bit of moccasin hunting on the river and slews before so many regulations. April and May are prime months. 38 Speer shot is good for about 10 feet. Farther than that got iffy. At 10 feet you can hit them with ball and have some range to spare.

Having tried most everything in .22 and .38 we settled on 148 grain swaged full wad cutters over 2.8 grains of Bullseye. They make quite a splat and exit wound. JHP's did not open much on the light resistance of snakes.

.22 LRHP was a disappointment in handguns, but from a rifle perform admirably. So we used the rifle on long shots.

I still carry the .38 wad cutters in snake country.

If loading .45 ACP snake loads consider using 185 gr or 200 gr cast SWC at around 850 fps. They would do the snake in, feed reliably, and be at least respectable on 2 legged snakes.

 

[StaTiK]

Having tried most everything in .22 and .38 we settled on 148 grain swaged full wad cutters over 2.8 grains of Bullseye. They make quite a splat and exit wound. JHP's did not open much on the light resistance of snakes.

.22 LRHP was a disappointment in handguns, but from a rifle perform admirably. So we used the rifle on long shots.

I still carry the .38 wad cutters in snake country.

I think the point is to use shot. If you're good enough to hit the snake with a solid projectile then any caliber would work. A 22 CB would be plenty at 7 feet if you could actually hit it...

I've considered a 45LC/.410 Derringer, but they're not as small as I had hoped. I like these homemade designs better.

Gunblast did a similar thread a while ago: Here

-StaTiK-

 

[cheygriz]

The easiest, and IME, best way is just to use Speer Shot cups loaded with #12 and single load them.

I've killed dozens of rattlers with this combo.

 

[Paladin38-40]

Snake shootin' 101

I think the point is to use shot. If you're good enough to hit the snake with a solid projectile then any caliber would work. A 22 CB would be plenty at 7 feet if you could actually hit it...

I've considered a 45LC/.410 Derringer, but they're not as small as I had hoped. I like these homemade designs better.

Gunblast did a similar thread a while ago: Here

-StaTiK-

I understood the point. My point is to present a different point of view.

To hit the snake, line up for a longitudinal shot, rather than a horizontal one. The bullet will not be up to the line of sight at short range so aim about an inch high. Hits are not too difficult unless the snake is hauling @. And for other than a head shot, solid point .22 bullets will not anchor one. A larger RN solid is only a little better at it.

As they say, YMMV, carry whatever you want, carry everywhere it's legal.

 

[Tmitchell49]

Thanks everyone for the feedback.

I was hoping for feedback like, to much powder, use a such and such case and neck it down with fill in the blank die to an OAL of x, use x powder as it's less bulky, use this type die to neck down 10mm to make work, etc. I guess most use round guns for this application and have not experimented to develop anything.

Again, don't take my post as disrespectful. I value everyone's opinion here.

 

[TonyT]

The RCBS dies for 45ACP shotshell used trimmed 308 Winchester brass. There was an old American Rifleman article which describesd their use with W-231 powder and shortened Remington 410 platic shotcups.