.45 auto rim

[Scott S]

Hello. I'm wanting to load up some lead bullets in 45 auto rim for my antique S&W 1917. I'll probably use Trail boss powder. I have some 200 grain 45 Colt bullets I didn't care for because it seems my 45 Colt guns are regulated for 250 grain. I also have lead 230 grain 45 acp bullets. What are everyone's thoughts? Thanks!

 

[.308 Norma]

Howdy Scott! Welcome!
I don't know what you're looking for - I think either would probably work okay, but if I was choosing between the two, I'd go with the 230gr "Frontier Lead" bullets for the following reasons:
First, I don't like bevel-based bullets such as the 200gr RNFPs on the left. A lot of commercial casters (possibly not all) cast bevel-based bullets only to save time. And those beveled bases, while there's something to be said for ease of loading, can contribute to leading.
Second, I never buy cast bullets that have the words "Hard Cast" on the box. An alloy that's too danged hard can be just as bad about leading (possibly worse) than an alloy that's too soft.
Thirdly, the "Frontier Lead" bullets appear to have gas checks. I like gas-checked cast lead and cast lead-alloy bullets.
The above reasons are just my opinions, but those opinions are based on experience. And seeing as how it would be my money if I was making a choice between which of the above bullets to buy, I'd pay at least half again as much for the gas-checked "Frontier Lead" bullets.
Edited to say: Fourthly, I don't like the hard, red, so called "lubricant" the makers of the "hard-cast" bullets on the left uses. The Frontier Lead bullets on the right appear to be powder coated. Is that right? If so, that's better.

 

[mdi]

When I got my first 45 ACP. I noticed in my manuals that the same loads were used in the Auto Rim as in the ACP with the addition of some revolver bullets. My only thoughts on the 2 bullets in the pic is the Hornady bullet had no crimp groove. Isn't the Hornady a swaged soft bullet? I would keep the loads light for that bullet and thinking a taper crimp will likely hold the bullet in place. If you're fairly new at reloading, start with the RNFP and roll crimp. Fewer possible oops! that way...

 

[.308 Norma]

My only thoughts on the 2 bullets in the pic is the Hornady bullet had no crimp groove. Isn't the Hornady a swaged soft bullet?

Yep, mdi has a point - no crimp groove on Hornady bullet could spell problems for use in your revolver unless you're using a taper crimp and a light load. I wouldn't worry about the Hornady bullets being soft, swaged lead though. In a 45 auto rim, you're likely to get more, and harder to clean out leading from a too hard alloy bullet than a soft lead bullet. Besides, from the picture, the Hornady bullets look like they are wearing gas checks.

 

[Jesse Heywood]

Choosing from the two I would go with the Hornady. They are soft swaged bullet and will be more likely to expand to fill the bore.

However, your gun should be checked for what size of bullets to use. Try pushing the bullet through the cylinder throat. It should be a hard push. Knowledge of the guns of the era says you need bullets of .455 diameter or larger. New, your gun had throats that measured .454-.455. With normal use and cleaning the throats will be larger. My Colt of the same vintage throats that needs bullets sized .456-.457 diameter. To check you need to either push a larger and soft bullet to push thru to measure or a ball gauge that can be miked, You can try measuring with calipers and get an approximate reading. A soft bullet sized to .455 should give good results.

I know that Missouri Bullets has a bullet called .455 Webley made for this purpose, but there are others. Since you have the Hornady bullet, I would give them a try, they might expand enough to fill the barrel.

For more on bullet hardness. http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Chapter_7_Leading.htm

 

[Jesse Heywood]

Yep, mdi has a point - no crimp groove on Hornady bullet could spell problems for use in your revolver unless you're using a taper crimp and a light load. I wouldn't worry about the Hornady bullets being soft, swaged lead though. In a 45 auto rim, you're likely to get more, and harder to clean out leading from a too hard alloy bullet than a soft lead bullet. Besides, from the picture, the Hornady bullets look like they are wearing gas checks.

The Hornady bullets are designed to be roll crimped near the end of the knurling. A heavy roll crimp is recommended which allows maximum expansion. The bullet is swaged of soft lead and deformation with the heavy crimp does not have a negative effect on the bullet. And they are not gas checked.

 

[Scott S]

Awesome, thanks everyone. I picked up the HSM 200grain 45 Colt bullets when for political reasons no reloading components were available. I loaded the Hornaday lead with good results in my 1911. Looks like I'll work up loads with the Hornaday and Trail Boss. Thanks again everyone!

 

[375supermag]

Hi...
I generally shoot 230gr LRN bullets in my .45AutoRim.
However, I bought several thousand 200gr LSWC at an auction for practically nothing, so I loaded up 100 of them with 4.3gr of Bullseye.
Probably try them out during my next range trip.

 

[35 Whelen]

I recently bought my first two S&W 1917's (Brazilian contract models)and it has been an eye opening experience.



So here are some thoughts-

Order a back issue of Handloader #306. Therein you'll fins a great article by Brian Pearce on loading the 45 AR, that includes over 400 loads.

Both of my 1917's have large cylinder throats at around .454", and this is pretty typical from what understand. These also have rifling that is fairly shallow. This combination doesn't work so well with soft bullets unless you load them to pressures significant enough to cause the bullet to obturate, and even then you're liable to get leading unless you can balance the matter of enough pressure to obturate the bullet while keeping velocities low enough to prevent leading. Mine actually shot fairly well with a box of old balloon head factory loads I found-



I found I can use .452" sized cast bullets successfully if I water-quench them which hardens them to around 22 Bhn. Good accuracy and no leading, so if you're not a caster, order some hard bullets. I used 4.3 of Hodgdon Clays and 4.9 grs. of IMR-Target with a cast 228 gr. RN to duplicate the original 45 ACP load. Other than that, any powder one would use in a 45 ACP will work in the AR. I personally see no need in Trail Boss in this cartridge, but if that's what you wish to use, more power to you. And FWIW, I checked the water capacity of my Starline 45 Auto Rim brass against 2 or 3 different makes of 45 ACP brass and their capacity is all but identical which means data should pretty much interchange.

RN lead bullets are a bit more accurate for me, but cutting the forcing cone to 11° helped accuracy with SWC's.



One can shoot using 45 ACP brass without moon clips, you just have to pull empties out of their chambers with you fingernails.

Finally, though these revolvers are old, Mr. Pearce points out in his article- "There are no "weak" .45 ACP revolvers, as even vintage U.S. Model 1917 Colt and Smith & Wesson revolvers have proven completely adequate to handle these pressure levels, while all modern guns are rated for +P pressures."

Hope this helps.

35W

 

[forty_caliber]

I use a lot of the Hornady Frontier lead. They have always performed well for me and make an excellent hardball round for .45acp

I agree with the advice to slug your barrel before committing to .452

.40

 

[mdi]

My methods are sizing the bullets to the same diameter as the cylinder throats. I have used this as a starting point for all my revolvers, from 38 Special through 45 Colt. Ninety percent of my cast bullets are approx. 11-12 BHN and sizing to the cylinder throats have eliminated mostly all of my leading problems, even to Magnum velocities...