45 Colt Bullet, Cylinder and Bore Diameters

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Maj Dad

Maj Dad

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I have searched handloading, gunsmithing and this forum to no avail (that speaks to me, not the forums :eek: ) so I will post here: I know that older 45 Colts used .454 diameter bullets and at some point bullets and/or bores moved to .452 causing issues with lead bullets, cylinder/forcing cone/groove diameters, degraded accuracy etc. Could someone expound on that? I am buying a USFA SAA Doug Turnbull 45 Colt and I am just hoping that a revolver with that provenance would be in sync, so to speak. I'm a boolit caster, so sizing them to the revolver isn't a problem, but I need to get a refresher on the issue (I can still go to a 44 Spl, but I really want a 45 Colt) :cool:.
Thanks in advance,
Geroge J.
 
Years ago, Colt used a +/-.454" bore, whatever the rifling cutter cut that day, and whatever a worn-out chamber reamer that had been sharpened too many times cut the chamber throats at.

But it didn't matter much, because all factory .45 Colt ammo was loaded with black powder & soft lead hollow-base bullets.
When the black power exploded, the soft lead hollow-base bullet fit whatever it was, whether it wanted too or not!

More recently, the industry standardized on .452" bores.
Then some companies continued to use .454" or larger chamber throats.
That worked fine with hollow-base factory loads, and even fairly well with flat-base cast & them new-fangled JHP bullets that came along in the 1970's.

Even more recently, S&W, Colt, and I am sure Doug Turnbull, got to better understand the importance of throat & bore size matching at .452", and now do it right almost every time.

rc
 
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Thanks, rc - I just needed to hear it again. I've got 44s (mag, spl & WCF) but no 45 Colt since I traded my Ruger 200th Anniversery convertible to my best friend ~1986 :banghead: Gonna fix that :D
 
I am buying a USFA SAA Doug Turnbull 45 Colt and I am just hoping that a revolver with that provenance would be in sync, so to speak. I'm a boolit caster, so sizing them to the revolver isn't a problem, but I need to get a refresher on the issue (I can still go to a 44 Spl, but I really want a 45 Colt)
Click to expand...

Maj Dad,

I would expect the revolver you are talking about would come with throats that are compatible with the bore. But, if not, as a boolit caster you can cast and size them to fit. You want them sized from .0005" to .001" larger that your throats. I have a S&W 25-5 with throats that measure .4545", and size my bullets to .455", and life is good.

Don
 
USFA should be able to tell you exactly what the cylinder throats and bore diameter will be. My wife got a USFA .45 Colt in '09, and at that time the factory told me that the throats would be .4525 and the groove diameter .451. My notes don't indicate that I actually ever miked it after we got it, and since she got it to look at, not to shoot, we haven't fired it.

However--I have a couple of Ruger .45 Colts that I DO shoot. The .45 Convertible I got in '98 had tight throats of varying dimensions. I had them reamed out to .4525 and started using a good old .454 Lyman Keith bullet. Bore was .452 but the .454 bullet worked just fine. My leading problems went away and accuracy is excellent. A more recent New Vaq in .45 Colt was right on the money with those numbers right out of the box; it loves those same .454 bullets. These days I am very impressed with the old .45 Colt; if I do my part it tries to cut one hole groups. I just neck size the brass so as not to work it too much, and at 925 fps the pressures are moderate.

THE USFS guns are very nice, but the New Vaq is also pretty and does a great job for me. In gloss stainless it's almost a dead ringer for my nickeled 1882 Colt SAA, indestructible, and scratches my itch.
 
Colt used the .454 bore diameter until WWII. After WWII they changed the bore diameter to .451, adopting the SAAMI standard and keeping it the same as the .45ACP.

You could also go over to the Colt Forum. They have a boatload of SAA experts there.
 
The first time I saw the word "boolit," I thought, "how quaint."

Now I've seen it 1000's of times and now I just wonder if folks know how to spell the dang word properly.

I think Turnbull knows how to make a gun, but call him and ask!
 
+1 on the partial resize. i resize 2/3 of the case and have had no issues. looks funny, though. kinda like a short, fat 44-40 case.

murf
 
The intentional misspelling of the word is a nod to the aficionados at the website in the link below.

I understand that. I think it is ok to call them boolits if you cast your own over a buffalo chip campfire. If you buy them, it is just an affectation.

I do wish the Internet Shooters would learn the difference between bore and groove diameters. They are SO quick to explain the difference between "clip" and "magazine" that you would think they would learn something that actually mattered to the operation of the gun.
 
USSR said:
David E,

The intentional misspelling of the word is a nod to the aficionados at the website in the link below. We know how to spell.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/

Don
Click to expand...

Which is the first place I saw it spelled that way. How quaint.

So what you're saying is, unless you're aware if that site, it understandably comes across as illiterate....

As far as "groove" and "lands," I'd be happy if folks learned the difference between "cylinder" and "chamber."

Lost track how many times folks have loaded "all six cylinders" on their revolver. :rolleyes:
 
So what you're saying is, unless you're aware if that site, it understandably comes across as illiterate....
Click to expand...

Yep. And the people who think we are illiterate, come across to us as being ignorant. So, I guess it's a trade-off.

Don
 
Whoa, it's getting hot in here...

I'm surprised no one has yet said, "boolits? we don' need no stinkin' boolits!"

But somewhat back on track for a moment - anybody know if there is any commercial manufacture of .454 diameter ammo these days, or is everything .451?

Thanks!

vanfunk
 
Maj Dad,

If that gun of yours was made in recent times, use .452 slugs. I spend quite a bit of time at Cowboy Action Shooting matches, and almost every ".45" shooter is loading with .452s for modern-made guns, be they Ruger Vaqueros or replicas of Colts.
 
I've got a Blackhawk that I slugged and it came out as .4525. I haven't measured the throats on it. It is circa 70s mfg. What does that mean with respect to jacketed, lead or plated sizes? My understanding is that lead should be slightly larger than jacketed, is that true?

When I did try to move my loads up into Ruger territory, I got terrible leading at the beginning of the barrel. I know that some of that is probably due to using a fast powder (titegroup) and maybe soft bullets (HSM - don't know the hardness on them).

I was thinking of working up some new loads with new bullets, but I have no idea if the .452 is appropriate in both lead and plated.
 
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