45 colt new vaquero ? Load for deer

[horsemen61]

Alright guys I recently got my hands on a new vaquero in 45 colt well I'd like to use it this deer season but I've heard that they new vaquero frame is pretty weak so I ask y'all if you were going to load for this what load would you use we are talking 50 yards and in by the way

 

[rcmodel]

250 grain LSWC and 8.5 to 9.0 grains Unique.

Or the same charge with a 250 Hornady XTP.

rc

 

[USSR]

Alright guys I recently got my hands on a new vaquero in 45 colt well I'd like to use it this deer season but I've heard that they new vaquero frame is pretty weak so I ask y'all if you were going to load for this what load would you use we are talking 50 yards and in by the way

horsemen61,

The New Vaquero is not "weak" per se. It is only weak in comparison to the old style Vaquero. As such, you are good for loads in the same power range as the N frame S&W's in .45 Colt (sub-25k psi). Here are loads that I use with 255 - 270gr SWC's in my S&W 25-5 for deer hunting:

18gr of 2400 (my favorite)
13gr of HS-6 (from John Linebaugh)
22gr of 4227

Velocities fall between 1000fps and 1100fps depending upon barrel length. Hope that helps.

Don

 

[Don McDowell]

Take a gander at the bludot loads on Alliants web data,with a 250 gr swc bullet. My new vaquero really like that combo, and it gets plenty of velocity to KO a deer out to 100 yds or so.

 

[MEHavey]

I just got finished wringing out a 4-5/8" New Vaquero:

8.1gr TiteGroup under an RCBS 45-270 SAA (Keith) LSWC **
277gr Actual w/ Lyman#2: 970fps/Oehler Chrono (1½" Grp from full cylinder @ 25yds)
Nothing's going to survive that.

**
1. This is 0.4gr under Pearce's published 20,000psi limit, and not inconsistent w/ my QuickLoad calculations
http://www.riflemagazine.com/magazine/PDF/HL 246partial.pdf
2. You must have reamed out the cylinder throats to 0.4525" or the req'd bullet OAL is too long
http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-t...olver-cylinder-throating-reamer-prod7700.aspx
.

 

[SDGlock23]

For 250/255gr .45 Colts

I'd venture to say 8.5-9.5gr of Unique, shoots well and isn't wimpy, yet not abusive either.

18-21gr of 2400 should do the trick too, work up as always.

 

[RealGun]

2. You must have reamed out the cylinder throats to 0.4525" or the req'd bullet OAL is too long
http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-to...-prod7700.aspx

This seems odd. Why not take Mohammed to the Mountain and reduce the OAL, perhaps trimming cases, if the crimp groove controls the bullet seating.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Is it only me who finds it a little strange someone wants to use a Vaquero with fixed sights for hunting deer? I have no problem with the cartridge but the platform is questionable. A Blackhawk would be a different story.

 

[USSR]

Is it only me who finds it a little strange someone wants to use a Vaquero with fixed sights for hunting deer?

True. Hunting deer with a handgun is tough enough, without potentially having to add "Kentucky windage" into the mix.

Don

 

[MEHavey]

I've got several 45 BlackHawks (I'm wierd), all but the Vaquero with adjustable sights.

But once the Vaquero was dialed in -- and sight filed down as req'd for elevation -- it's just as precise (perhaps more so) as my other Blackhawks. The OP will likely have to compensate for sight/windage offset, but that's a practice issue -- and the heart/lung area on a deer is "reasonably" comparable to the 8-ring in the standard NRA 50 Yard Slow Fire Pistol target.

Getting to know the gun itself is the most important ingredient here.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I've got several 45 BlackHawks (I'm wierd), all but the Vaquero with adjustable sights.

But once the Vaquero was dialed in -- and sight filed down as req'd for elevation -- it's just as precise (perhaps more so) as my other Blackhawks. The OP will likely have to compensate for sight/windage offset, but that's a practice issue -- and the heart/lung area on a deer is "reasonably" comparable to the 8-ring in the standard NRA 50 Yard Slow Fire Pistol target.

Getting to know the gun itself is the most important ingredient here.

I 100% agree when shooting targets but the OP is talking about hunting live game. Estimating the elevation for paper is just fine, on game, not so much...

 

[Don McDowell]

Not sure what difference it would make being a Blackhawk or the vaquero? Been shooting the Rugers and Colts and clones for many decades, and have yet to ever try to adjust the sights on a gun when getting ready to take a shot at game.
As long as the shooter can get a clear sight picture, and knows where to hold for the distance the quarry is standing at, I think it makes no difference whether the sight is adjustable or not.

 

[horsemen61]

Guys I feel confident in the fact that I can make the shot at that distance or closer

 

[Don McDowell]

horseman have a good hunt , looking forward to seeing how your hunt turns out.

 

[USSR]

...and sight filed down as req'd for elevation

Wish that is all that is required for me. The S&W N frames in .45 Colt are notorious for needing to "add" height to the front sight.

Don

 

[Dframe]

The new Vaquero is NOT weak. The old ones were overbuilt, heavy and encouraged sometimes reckless overloading. The 45 Colt in standard trim is perfectly adequate for deer sized game. Once load development is complete, and the sights are regulated, the fixed sight gun is every bit as accurate as the adjustable one, and far less likely to have sights inadvertently moved or damaged.

 

[Eb1]

I don't see it any different than shooting foster slugs with a beed sight. If the operator knows his weapon then I think he'll knock'em dead.

I load for the .44 Magnum, and I can tell you that this weekend we found a few of the Missouri Cast Bullets .430 "Smasher" that I loaded. That bullet hit the ground, and traveled 5 to 10 feet under the ground, and then came up and laid on the top soil. The bullet was not altered. I could load that bullet back into a new case and shoot it again.
I was going to use these on deer from my muzzleloader, but after seeing the penetration of 10' of dirt, and the bullet not even show a sign of expansion at all. I don't think I will. What I am saying I don't think you'll see anything but a .454 hole if you you use LSWC or a Round Nose Flat Point from your SA. I am changing my mind, and will hunt with Hornady XTP bullets when using the Super Blackhawk or the Muzzleloader.
Out of the muzzleloader I am using 200 grain XTP and from the .44 Magnum I will be using 240 grain over 20.5 grains of 2400.

 

[USSR]

That bullet hit the ground, and traveled 5 to 10 feet under the ground, and then came up and laid on the top soil. The bullet was not altered. I could load that bullet back into a new case and shoot it again.

This is what I use in .45 Colt. No problem with the bullet being "unaltered".



Don

 

[Eb1]

Here is that bullet in which I was speaking. As you can see, there is little to zero deformity of the bullet.

If 10' in the dirt doesn't alter this bullet then I doubt very seriously a deer skin will. RC mentioned using LSWC or XTP. I would go with the XTP because I think most OTC lead bullets bought that are plain base bullets are going to be this hard, and will not be good for deer.

I could be completely wrong. I know that AR500 steel will flatten these things out, but that is some hard steel. I think I will stick with an XTP at 1250 fps for handgun hunting. I know it will expand and keep on going. These? We'll they shoot straight, and would probably be good for stopping 4 wheel drive trucks. lol

I would hope the LSWC that I have would flatten some, but I am starting to think it wouldn't. I was thinking of going to LSWC for all shooting needs, but after finding this...I don't know if that is a good idea or not.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Not sure what difference it would make being a Blackhawk or the vaquero? Been shooting the Rugers and Colts and clones for many decades, and have yet to ever try to adjust the sights on a gun when getting ready to take a shot at game.
As long as the shooter can get a clear sight picture, and knows where to hold for the distance the quarry is standing at, I think it makes no difference whether the sight is adjustable or not.

Where did I say I expected anyone to adjust the sights before taking a shot when hunting? The adjustable sights allow you to sight in all different types of ammo at the range BEFORE you hunt!!! Did you really thing I meant you should adjust iron sights before you take a shot on game or did you just say that to make me sound stupid so your point sounded more valid? Once you "sight in" a fixed sight revolver you are stuck with that one ammo, not so with adjustable sights.

With iron sights, the Vaquero has a small notch cut into the back of the frame which isn't all that bad but @ 50 yards much more difficult to attain that clear sight picture you speak of than with adjustable sights. Also, the Blackhawk Hunter can be scoped so you can use a Red Dot or other optics where the Vaquero isn't set up like that from the factory.

 

[MEHavey]

OP is talking about hunting live game.
Estimating the elevation for paper is
just fine, on game, not so much...

If you're shooting a 260gr bullet (LSWC) at mid 900s,
1" high at 25 is 1" low at 50.
Inside those ranges is Point Blank

 

[Don McDowell]

Archangel I have not noticed the problem of changing loads with a fixed sighted gun, over the years .
And I don't believe I mentioned you in any post? Just posting in the flow of the conversation after someone started wondering about guessing the hold etc for different ranges, and how a fixed sighted gun might be alright with targets but not for live game...

 

[Don McDowell]

Mehavey that's pretty dang close for sure, and makes for a pretty easy center hold on any deer with in the yardages stated by the OP.

 

[Walkalong]

Many of the commercial "hard cast" bullets are too hard and will indeed shoot through a deer with little to no deformation. They can still be effective though.

Don casts his own and knows what alloy to use for the kind of results his bullets show.

 

[Don McDowell]

I shot a couple of deer and antelope with the xtp's when they first came out 20 years or so ago. Did not impress me much, so went back to the swc bullets ( much prefer the keith styled bullets) and never looked back.