45 Colt +P load question

Status
Not open for further replies.
Kentucky_Rifleman

Kentucky_Rifleman

Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2010
Messages
672
Location
Lexington, KY
I happened to trade into a beautiful Ruger Bisley Blackhawk in .45 Colt a couple of months back, and I've had a lot of fun playing with the hotter loads in Hornady. The heavy Blackhawk with its unfluted cylinder and Bisley grip frame soaks up the recoil, and even the magnum-level loads are pleasingly subdued.

Here's my problem; I always loved shooting the hot 180 gr. loads in my .44 magnum, and I've picked up a box of Nosler 185 gr. JHPs wanting to create a similar load for the Bisley, but I'm having fits finding any reliable data for loading these light bullets.

Does anyone have data they can share or a link to a site I've somehow overlooked? I've always liked loading with Alliant 2400 in the .44, and it seems like a good powder to bring to the Bisley, so data using that powder would be especially appreciated, but I'll take anything I can get at this point.

Thanks in advance,
KR
 
I would suggest going to the Hodgdon load data site and trying the load data for the 240gr Ruger Only loads. I know you can use higher charges with a 185gr bullet than a 240gr bullet but it's a good place to start. The Hodgdon site has data for 4227, H110/W296, Longshot and Lil'Gun. Unfortunately Alliant doesn't have heavy load data for the .45 Colt on their load data site so I can't help you with 2400.
 
********The following data exceeds powder manufacturers specs. This data is used in my gun, and not necesarily safe in yours********
This is just guessing, but I would say a range from 21 to 24gr of 2400 would be right in there somwhere. I load 255 lswc up to 20 or so regularly. I have been loading 230gr lrn @ 21.5gr. The 230 load i am getting ready to take higher, probably make some test loads up to 22.5gr. Safe is different than accurate and shootable.
 
Safe is different than accurate and shootable.
Click to expand...

VERY true. My .44 gets good accuracy with the 180 gr. HP Hornady loads, and actually favors the hotter end of the load charge, getting the best accuracy just under the maximum loads. I'm hoping that the Bisley will do much the same.

KR
 
You might try using .44mag 180gr data, if you can't find specific data for .45Colt 185gr. The .45 case has more capacity than the .44 so that should provide a reasonable safety margin as you work up to your desired power level from starting loads.
 
Kentucky, it's going to be hard to find data on overloads of any kind, and rightly so.

Chasing the last few fps before blowing things up can be fun, I guess, but the effect is too small to bother with, IMHO. How fast does a boulder have to go? ;)
 
Probably not gonna be able to push them too fast without them creeping out of the cases, since they are ACP bullets with no crimping groove. Unless you have a canneluring tool. I hope you don't plan on hunting with them as they will probably come apart pretty fast.
 
+1

The Hornady 185 is a .45 ACP auto-pistol bullet.
No crimp cannulure to keep them from pulling in a hot revolver load.

Plus, your gun ain't gonna shoot where it looks with that light a bullet until you do a lot of rear sight cranking. Maybe you'll get lucky and not run out of sight adjustment before you get it zero'ed.

rc
 
Kentucky, it's going to be hard to find data on overloads of any kind, and rightly so. Chasing the last few fps before blowing things up can be fun, I guess, but the effect is too small to bother with, IMHO. How fast does a boulder have to go?
Click to expand...

Ranger, I'm not a guy who loads past safe levels or pushes the envelope to much; I'm too fond of all my digits :)

I know that the Blackhawks will stand pressures that cause kabooms in older guns and replicas. I've relied on the Hornady data for the heavier bullets in the 45+P loads, and they've never given the big Ruger a single hiccup.

I realize that the 185 gr. JHPs are for the .45 ACP, but I was hoping to create a light fast +P load with them. I hadn't considered the absent cannelure issue, and I can now see how that may well give me some problems.

I don't mind trying the .44 Mag 180 Gr. load - 20% or so, as long as that gets me back down to withing safe pressure levels for the Ruger. The Rugers are built like tanks anyway, and I'll shoot the hottest Hornady loads through my Super Blackhawk or Super Redhawk all day long with no particular wear and tear. I load closer to the middle of the road for my Model 29, as it gets its best accuracy there. The Rugers seem to perform best at the edge of the envelope.

Thanks to everyone who posted data or links. As always, I very much appreciate the input. I'll keep checking this thread for any more information people might share.

I'll post later with how the loads perform as I work them up, and I'll be sure to keep an eye on bullet creep.

KR
 
ljnowell said:
********The following data exceeds powder manufacturers specs. This data is used in my gun, and not necesarily safe in yours********
This is just guessing, but I would say a range from 21 to 24gr of 2400 would be right in there somwhere. I load 255 lswc up to 20 or so regularly. I have been loading 230gr lrn @ 21.5gr. The 230 load i am getting ready to take higher, probably make some test loads up to 22.5gr. Safe is different than accurate and shootable.
Click to expand...
How far away do you have to put the target to keep it from catchin fire from the muzzle flash? ;-)
 
The 230 gr LRN loads will throw black on the target at 10ft, when we tested for that. We were thinking the same thing. The 45acp bullet I was using was the Softball from Missouri bullet, I just roll crimped into the lead. No problems with bullets pullling out that way. Of course you cant do that with a jacketed quite as well.
 
I would use 15.0 grains of Herco or 16.0 of Power Pistol. (They might fly apart in mid-air.) I would not use slower powders with bullets that light.

12 grains of Herco with 250 or 255 grain cast bullets is a good thumper, and it's cheap to shoot.
 
The Lyman's 49th has some 185gr JHP loads for 45 Colt. They list Unique from 7.5gr to 10.0gr @ 934fps.

I wouldn't exactly call that hot since they list a 240 JHC (HC?) max load with 17.0gr 2400 @ 997fps.

Never tried it, but 2400 might make a fun load to play with.
 
You need the article that Brian Pearce did for Handloader Magazine. He had three levels of 45Colt loads; 14,000psi, 20,000psi and 30,000psi ones. The bullet they used though is a RCBS 45-270-SAA weighing in at 285gr though! ;)

Personally, and I cast 200gr LSWC H&G #68 bullets, I like lots heavier bullets than what you are trying to load for. LoadData.com will have some loads if you want to search through them.

I have to agree with rc on part of this one, no can cannulure and no taper crimp and these bullets are going to walk all over. Do you have a 45ACP Taper Crimp Die? They can be purchased singly and are made by Lee.

I have several bullets I cas specifically for the 45Colt, one a copy of the mould I mentioned before and a 240gr LSWC from an H&G #502 mould. I have driven them from my Ruger 45 Convertible to 1500fps with some of Linebaugh's data. What you are asking for is not out of the question or realm of safety.

2400 is a good powder to use as it can be downloaded better than H110/W296.

If it were me, and I couldn't find any data, I would take the 44Mag minimum load for a 180gr bullet and start there. The bigger case of the 45 Colt is going to reduce pressure right away if the OAL is near the same. You may just find that that is a good load for you.

Like I said earlier though; you need a bigger bullet to play with! ;)
 
I have to agree with rc on part of this one, no can cannulure and no taper crimp and these bullets are going to walk all over. Do you have a 45ACP Taper Crimp Die? They can be purchased singly and are made by Lee.
Click to expand...

Skip, I use the Lee carbide Deluxe set with the taper crimp die. The last +P loads I turned out were Hornady 230 gr. bullets with no cannelure, and those bullets didn't creep, even under heavy recoil.

I used the Hornady 240 gr. middle-weight load of 22.5 gr. of 2400 under the 185 gr. JHPs. This should leave me well within the safe pressure levels for the Bisley Blackhawk, and leaves me .3 grains heavier than the next-lightest load in the Hornady data for the 180 gr. 44 Mag.

I'll put some through the gun next week. I'm not worried about a kaboom, but I am curious how accurate these loads will be.

I'll post an update.

KR
 
I wouldn't exactly call that hot since they list a 240 JHC (HC?) max load with 17.0gr 2400 @ 997fps.
Click to expand...

Yeah, thats not to the fun point yet. I have loaded 300gr LTC @ 19.5gr of 2400. Thats painful with the plastic plowhandle grip. I usually load them to18.5gr.
 
Kentucky_Rifleman said:
Skip, I use the Lee carbide Deluxe set with the taper crimp die. The last +P loads I turned out were Hornady 230 gr. bullets with no cannelure, and those bullets didn't creep, even under heavy recoil.

I'll post an update.

KR
Click to expand...

I too have loaded some 230gr LRN loads from a Saeco 496BB bullet and they were OK. I too used the taper crimp die and you can crimp them so they don't creep even under the heaviest recoil. I just wanted to mention that.

There are some 185gr jacketed loads in the Lee manual, but none in the "Ruger Only" category. Do you have that manual? If not, I can send you a PM with them.

I also have a Puma rifle that I am working up some heavy hunting loads for. This is a fun caliber to load for, that's for sure!
 
Skip_a_roo said:
I also have a Puma rifle that I am working up some heavy hunting loads for. This is a fun caliber to load for, that's for sure!
Click to expand...

I have the Puma 92 in 454 that I mainly shoot in 45 Colt. Some of the "Ruger Only" loads for 45 Colt out of that thing really get downrange in a hurry! (I've chrono'ed at 2100 fps+ for a 250 JHP) That is when I really appreciate the built in recoil pad. :)
 
I got to shoot the 185 gr. JHP +P load today.

First, nothing blew up. In fact, compared to the heavier bullet +P loads, the 185s' recoil was quite pleasant.

Accuracy was good. I was holding a 4" pattern at 35 yards off a sandbag and me with open sights. that's as good as I get without going to a scoped pistol.

The loads didn't feel as hot as my 180 gr. .44 mag loads.

The bullets seemed to hold together just fine, showing no signs of early fragmentation or key-holing.

The Lee Factory Crimp die did the trick, keeping the bullets tight and locked into the brass, so I had no creep, in spite of the absence of a cannelure.

I'll load the next batch a little hotter and see how they do. I'll stop when the brass or the Ruger shows pressure signs or when I begin to sacrifice accuracy.

I'll update you then.

KR
 
I got to shoot the 185 gr. JHP +P load today.

First, nothing blew up. In fact, compared to the heavier bullet +P loads, the 185s' recoil was quite pleasant.

Accuracy was good. I was holding a 4" pattern at 35 yards off a sandbag and me with open sights. that's as good as I get without going to a scoped pistol.

The loads didn't feel as hot as my 180 gr. .44 mag loads.

The bullets seemed to hold together just fine, showing no signs of early fragmentation or key-holing.

The Lee Factory Crimp die did the trick, keeping the bullets tight and locked into the brass, so I had no creep, in spite of the absence of a cannelure.

I'll load the next batch a little hotter and see how they do. I'll stop when the brass or the Ruger shows pressure signs or when I begin to sacrifice accuracy.

I'll update you then.

KR
Click to expand...
I look forward to the updates. I love heavy loads in my Blackhawk and like to follow other peoples adventures with the same.

It seems a lot of the time when this topic is brought up there will be people with comments on the safety or even questioning the intelligence of the individual doing the loading. I'm glad this thread hasnt went that way.
 
I can't come up with 2400 loads for the .45 Colt with a bullet that light, but the Hodgeon #26 manual lists starting load of 12 grains of Unique and a max of 13.5 grains for the 185 grain bullet, with velocity listed as 1270 and 1418, respectively.

The most efficent powder for a bullet that light appears to be HS-7, which will drive a 185 grain bullet to 1554 with 20.5 grains. Right behind that load is HS-6, with 1514 from 18 grains.
 
Vern Humphrey said:
I can't come up with 2400 loads for the .45 Colt with a bullet that light, but the Hodgeon #26 manual lists starting load of 12 grains of Unique and a max of 13.5 grains for the 185 grain bullet, with velocity listed as 1270 and 1418, respectively.

The most efficent powder for a bullet that light appears to be HS-7, which will drive a 185 grain bullet to 1554 with 20.5 grains. Right behind that load is HS-6, with 1514 from 18 grains.
Click to expand...
Vern, Hodgdon and Unique? Maybe you meant Universal. Alliant makes Unique now and I though before that it was Hercules. Could be wrong, I have been before!

As for heavy loads and the Blackhawk, I've got some. My 45 caliber convertible has seen some real smokers! 280gr LSWC @ 1500fps from the 5 1//2" barrel! To be honest, I tuned it down just a tad! ;)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

velocette
  • Locked
+P .45 Colt Ruger loads?
Replies
12
Views
5K
au_prospector
A
T
  • Locked
45 colt loads?
Replies
15
Views
4K
joecil
J
G
  • Locked
185gr JHP in .45 Colt (Ruger Load)
Replies
15
Views
4K
Gryffydd
G
Legionnaire
  • Locked
What loads for MBC 255gr SWCs in .45 Colt?
Replies
9
Views
662
Arkansas Paul
Arkansas Paul
D
  • Locked
45 Colt, Allaint 2400 and 250gr. XTP
Replies
9
Views
4K
huntershooter
H
Back
Top