.45 colt recoil?

[CraigC]

Why the hell would I say that to mean "most" of ALL shooters??? Obviously most of all shooters in the US have probably never fired a single action revolver of any kind. This should be painfully obvious to all present.

"Most" shooters, who shoot big bore revolvers and have tried the available options, prefer the Bisley for handling heavy recoil. Clearly, obviously, there are exceptions. Some prefer the Super Blackhawk grip, some prefer the FA.

I'll save you the trouble but anyone can contact any of the major gunsmiths I mentioned to confirm this, the VAST majority of big bore five-shot conversions are done on the Bisley platform. Why? Because it is the most comfortable for the majority of shooters. Not Redhawks, not Super Redhawks, not Super Blackhawks, not Blackhawks. Bisleys. Anyone is free to contact any of the men I mentioned if they do not believe me.

Which is to say, this is my perception based on 25yrs of big bore revolver passion and interest. The accumulation of hundreds of books and articles. The association with hundreds of fellow big bore enthusiasts. The communication with several gunsmiths and the commission of four custom Ruger revolvers. Countless thousands of rounds handloaded and sent downrange through a plethora of sixguns of all makes, models and chamberings. I could count the number of custom DA's in .475 or .500 chamberings I've seen on both hands with change left. While those built on the Bisley number in the hundreds. I posted a link to a 13pg thread that went unnoticed.

If anyone disagrees or knows better, I humbly invite them to prove me wrong. I'm ALWAYS willing to learn something new.

 

[Loosedhorse]

Why the hell would I say that to mean "most" of ALL shooters

You're asking me why you say the things you do?

"Most" shooters, who shoot big bore revolvers and have tried the available options, prefer the Bisley for handling heavy recoil

Actually, I believe you said 99.99%. If you are now changing to "most" (50.0001%)...hmmm, given all the N-frames, X-frames, SBHs and SRHs out there, (and fewer Freedom Arms but, as you noted, representing quite a devoted group) I still think you're probably wrong. JMHO. But I'd have to admit your claim is now in the realm of possibility.

I humbly invite them to prove me wrong

Your experience is your experience. I can't prove it wrong.

However, it seems tilted to SA enthusiasts and SA custom gunsmiths. It is unsurprising to me that, in those circles, you might have experienced that "most people" really like the Bisley. Great.

How you got from there to your saying the preference for Bisleys was 99.99%, and to your saying I was ignorant--well, again, how would I know why you say the things you do?

 

[ljnowell]

Hmmm. Did I say that I would call him, or anyone? Man, you really are desparate, aren't you? Pitiful, again.

Let's see: "Hi, Mr. Bowen. It's Loosedhorse. I know you're a busy man, but you see, there's this guy CraigC, and he says..."

Nah. You make the phone call. Ask him to post his response here. Make sure he includes the bit about the 99.99%.

You know, before you run your mouth on the internet you should really attempt to educate yourself. As for the people listed by craigc as being bisley proponents and building custom guns in high recoiling cartidges on the bisley platform, how about this:

http://www.sixguns.com/range/big_bore_bisleys.htm

The Bisley has become the choice of two custom gunsmiths, John Linebaugh and Hamilton Bowen , for fitting with five shot .500 cylinders and barrels. The Bisley is chosen for its inherent strength, and comfortable grip frame

Read the rest of the article. Unless you have been living under a rock, what craigc said should have been common knowledge, at least to someone who would argue about single action revolvers with such anger.


How about this one:
http://www.gunblast.com/Ruger_Bisley45.htm

The Ruger Bisley grip is much more comfortable for handling repeated firings of heavily recoiling loads in a single action revolver. The custom gunsmiths who build the powerful five shot forty-fives use the Ruger Bisley grip frame almost exclusively. The shape and length of the Ruger Bisley grip helps to keep the revolver from excessively rolling upward in the shooter’s hand upon firing. The Bisley hammer is easier to reach than that of the Blackhawk, and the trigger has a more comfortable shape.

I could post these all day, but I still doubt you would apologize for your hate filled comments and attacks in this thread.

 

[ljnowell]

If we ask Linebaugh he will tell you that when doing a 45 colt conversion:

These are done on Ruger frames only and we suggest the Bisley model for its superior grip and recoil control either in the Blackhawk model with adjustable sights or the Vaquero Bisley

When discussing the 475 linebaugh he says:

This conversion is done on new Ruger Bisley Revolvers ONLY!

and the 500 linebaugh:

The 500 is built exclusively on the Ruger Bisley and with a 7 1/2" barrel,

Here is the link to the page in question:
http://www.customsixguns.com/pricing.htm


Hmm, seems those custom makers really are stuck on the bisley, arent they?

 

[Loosedhorse]

You know, before you run your mouth on the internet

You know, before you do the same, you should read what I wrote. I didn't say that they weren't "proponents" of the Bisley platform, nor that they dind't build Bisleys. Only that citing them did not support a 99.99% preference figure, nor even prove a "most" figure.

The Bisley has become the choice of two custom gunsmiths, John Linebaugh and Hamilton Bowen , for fitting with five shot .500 cylinders and barrels.

Fine. What has that to do with determining the preferences of most shooters (or 99.99% of shooters) shooting .45 caliber high-recoil loads, as in the OP?

The Ruger Bisley grip is much more comfortable for handling repeated firings of heavily recoiling loads in a single action revolver.

Fine. "In a single action revolver." If you'd bother reading my posts, I talked about three different DA revolvers.

So--what's you're point? I mean, besides that you like to butt in without understanding the discussion?

This conversion is done on new Ruger Bisley Revolvers ONLY!

Well, that's odd, because Linebaugh also says this:

We will be offering both .500 and .475 caliber guns. Please call for availability of matching serial number sets.

$3,995.00 on your Ruger Super Blackhawk frame.

I guess it's not just Bisleys, is it?

And gosh--why did this gunsmith say:

Please note: We recommend the Super Redhawk (stainless .44 model only) be used for .475 Linebaugh conversions due to heavy recoil.

As far as .500 Linebaugh:



So: are you quoting gunsmiths selectively out of incomplete knowledge, or because you have a motive to hide some of what some actually say?

 

[ljnowell]

I understood the discusion entirely. I also understand that you are an argumentitive individual that likes to stir up a pot and create arguments on message boards. You will twist and turn at every chance to try and make sure that you dont look like you lose an argument.

You said:

BTW, which one of these has said--as you have--that the Bisley is best for 99.99% of all shooters; or--as you have--that 99% of his custom high-recoil orders are Bisleys (unless of course Bisleys are his specialty, so that people would only come to him for that gun).

Proven, as posted above in those links by myself. Apologize for your foul statements or let the rest of the forum know what a tool you are for starting an argument when you are in the wrong.

If you think I will sink down to your level and engage in a stupid net war with someone who has now clue what they are talking about you are wrong. Now that there are some links up to show that you are wrong, the ball is in your court. Take the high road or look like a jerk, doesnt matter to any of us.

 

[Loosedhorse]

I also understand that you are an argumentitive individual that likes to stir up a pot

No. If anyone is argumentative it is you, sticking your nose in just to argue.

What I like is to say what I believe to be true. And if someone says I'm ignorant and wrong, to ask him to prove that statement. And if he can't do that, but simply repeats what he's already said and supplies "facts" that don't support his statement...

Well, I call him on that. As I have now called you on your statements.

Proven, as posted above in those links by myself.

Not proven. Just the opposite, I have shown that what you posted was misleading. Your comments now suggest the attempted deception was perhaps deliberate.

Or, perhaps you just don't understand what "proven" means? Or is it the "99%" part that befuddles you?

 

[CraigC]

I have to thank ljnowell for his comments, finally some common sense in this thread.

I will also add that I know of only a couple `smith's that will even do a five shot DA. Bowen being one, Jack Huntington another. Reeder started only recently but it's a small fraction of his builds. Most don't even do them, because they're highly labor intensive and the market just prefers single actions. I wonder why???

We recommend the Super Redhawk (stainless .44 model only) be used for .475 Linebaugh conversions due to heavy recoil.

You're on the double action page so all references will be to double actions. The preference here is because the SRH is more comfortable to shoot in these custom five-shots than the standard Redhawk. The .44 model is used because the .454 and .480 models are problematic when it comes to removing the barrels.

Like I said, this should all be common knowledge to anyone who is a student of the big bore sixgun.

 

[Loosedhorse]

I know of only a couple `smith's that will even do a five shot DA.

And you believe that has to do with the felt recoil, as you seem to claim, or perhaps the stronger frame of a gun without a swing-out cylinder? Or because if anyone wants a .460 or .500 DA revolver, all they have to do is pick one off the shelf from S&W for a lot less than a Linebaugh custom?

Because this thread started out about recoil.

the market just prefers single actions.

Oh, the "market" does? Is that why there are few factory Bisley big-bore revolvers offered, and yet so many non-Bisley SAs and plenty of DAs?

Like I said, this should all be common knowledge to anyone who is a student of the big bore sixgun.

Or big-bore fivegun. Why do you assume it isn't? And why do you assume that this "common knowledge" helps your odd claims about the Bisley?

It doesn't.

 

[CraigC]

...or perhaps the stronger frame of a gun without a swing-out cylinder?

The double actions are actually stronger, try again. Although I'm sure you'll want to refute that as well.

Oh, the "market" does?

The market for custom five-shots, yes.

And why do you assume that this "common knowledge" helps your odd claims about the Bisley?

It's only odd due to ignorance.

Or because if anyone wants a .460 or .500 DA revolver, all they have to do is pick one off the shelf from S&W for a lot less than a Linebaugh custom?

If anyone wants to buy a big, goofy X-frame over a packable single action, they are surely free to. Personally, one of my next two customs will be a five-shot .500 on the Bisley frame. Because I want a .500 chambered in a sixgun that I can actually tote on a belt holster. Not a 5lb monstrosity like the X-frame, of which I would not take a dozen free ones.

 

[Loosedhorse]

The double actions are actually stronger, try again.

Hey, I'm here to learn. If you mean by that statement that the Ruger SBH is weaker than a S&W N-frame, I'm all ears--teach me!

If you mean that the S&W X-frame is stronger than the first-gen Colt SAA...duh. Your statement has no meaning at all unless your saying WHICH SA is stronger or weaker than WHICH DA.

I would have thought that was common knowledge.

It's only odd due to ignorance.

Actually, it's only claimed because of that. Or something worse.

Personally

Yeah, got that. But your personal preferences have nothing to do with supporting your claims about what 99.99% of "non-ignorant" shooters prefer. (Mine don't either, by the way.)

The market for custom five-shots, yes.

Which has nothing to do with your 99.99% claim.

 

[CraigC]

Jesus Christ, you beat all I've ever seen in my life. I should've never let this go this far because it's nothing but a stupid exercise in futility.

RUGER DOUBLE ACTIONS! Obviously. If we're talking about five-shot conversions we're OBVIOUSLY talking about Ruger double actions. The Redhawk and Super Redhawk, since I have to be so specific. I would've ASSUMED you knew that, because to sit here and have this conversation, with the almighty tone you've displayed, putting so much effort into telling the world I'm wrong I am, I should be able to ASSUME that much. Or maybe you're worse off than I thought.

I love it when somebody expends so much effort in a thread telling me I'm wrong and how stupid I am and then asks such a basic question.

 

[theicemanmpls]

Thanks gentlemen. My purpose is to hunt hogs, not trophy size, but more for meat (150-200 pounders). Maybe I don't need super powerful loads for my purpose? I'd even consider a .357, but I can't seem to find much out there with something more than a 6.5 inch barrell.

Arch,
Welcome to the forum. First of all, if you shoot at an animal, two legged, or four legged, no matter what firearm you are using, most likely you will not notice, or remember, the blast, and or the recoil.

But, we have to get you to that point. No matter what animal you are shooting at, one must make sure they provide that animal a quick clean death. IMHO, hunting is all about shot placement for many reasons.

This requires practice, and of course SAFETY.

A 357 will do the job on any hog. A 6" barrel is better then a 4". Fuhgittabout anything less then 4" I have downed whitetails at 40 yards with a 4" 357.

The recoil you feel is all about the laws of physics. Difference in the weight of the projectile, velocity launched, Issac Newton comes to town. With a .357/38 you have much more wiggle room. Bullet placement will vary with projectile weight and velocity. Also factor in grip, trigger pull, and flinch factor. A pistol that recoils hard usually attracts Mr Flinch.

I take it you know someone who reloads? You could have the Ruger 45 loaded down to Cowboy rounds for practice. Same with the 38. With the .38 you can buy wadcutter target rounds. Buy the reloader friend a bag of brass he will gladly reload what ever you want.

I have a Bisley Vaquero .45 I reload for. Very nice, classic pistol. I don't shoot it much as I prefer my 38/357 Smiths.

I have to many pistols. I need to clean out the safe to put a new seat on the Shadow. My rump is getting sore.

I think Ruger might make a Vaquero in 357. Again, nice classic firearm. In retrospect, I should of got mine in .357.

Like someone suggested, find different guns to shoot. Gun ranges are usually very friendly places. People love to show off their firearms.

What area are you from? You don't have to answer if you don't want.

 

[rcmodel]

sticking your nose in just to argue.

Jesus Christ,

Boy!
Nothing THR about this thread, after it went off the rails about two pages ago.

We all are gun guys and love them, or we wouldn't be here to argue and shout insults at each other.

Right?

Why can't we all just get along??

rc

 

[Loosedhorse]

I love it when somebody expends so much effort in a thread

Hey, man, takes two to tango. All I said was that a .45 Colt round would have less felt recoil through a big revolver meant for .454 or .460. And that set you off for some reason.

A whole bunch of claims by you later--most about my ignorance--here we are. I've got to conclude you were happy to supply the ride.

asks such a basic question.

Asking you to specify what you're talking about is a "basic question" that I shouldn't be asking?

Why can't we all just get along??

Hey, you're right. I'll pipe down. Let's see if anyone dives in for a last swipe at me.

 

[theicemanmpls]

Gee, here I was trying to reply to what the OP said. I bypassed all the on line drama.

Way to go guys. You really impressed the new guy. I wonder if he thinks we are junior high school boys, and went on to a forum with adults.

One of the mods will close the thread down to stop the horseplay. This was a good thread. Now dammit.

Old saying - Arguing on line is like being in the special Olympics. You may win the contest, but when its all over, you still will be developmentally disabled. (edited to be politically correct)

 

[MCgunner]

I load a 300 grain XTP over a heathy dose of 2400 for 1120 fps out of my Blackhawk's 4 5/8" barrel, 1200 fps out of my Contender's 7" barrel. It'll do anything a .44 mag will do. The Blackhawk is easy to shoot, just rolls in the hand absorbing all that recoil. the Contender kinda hurts, is not pleasant.

I've never tried a Bisley, but I do like the way the traditional plow handle rolls in my hand to eliminate the pain. I'm quite happy with a standard Blackhawk. I can say, however, that my TC is similar in profile to a DA gun and, no, I don't want a heavy recoiling DA grip shape in a hunting pistol, personal opinion and preference not based on anyone else's opinions or sales figures.

 

[MCgunner]

BTW, for range shooting, 8.3 grains Unique with a 255 flat nose Lee mold cast bullet is easy to handle in most any .45 Colt save maybe a little tougher in a snubby 5 shooter. To, this load will kill any whitetail that walks to 50 yards. All the hotter load does is extend effective range. I can shoot that load all day in my guns, though, no pain. The hot load isn't painful in the Blackhawk, but it has a rather big boom and flash to it, sorta like shooting hot .357s in a K frame. It's not tiring to ME, but hey, I'm used to it.

 

[Super Sneaky Steve]

I'm afraid of zombie bears. So I bought a box of this.

1266ft/lbs out of a revolver should do it.

 

[gp911]

I have fired that BB load SSS, it is STOUT. My Bisley hammer bit my hand on that one! I love the BB standard pressure 255gr @ 1000fps load, that big mutha is entertaining and all, but unless I'm in bear country...

 

[Super Sneaky Steve]

I have fired that BB load SSS, it is STOUT. My Bisley hammer bit my hand on that one! I love the BB standard pressure 255gr @ 1000fps load, that big mutha is entertaining and all, but unless I'm in bear country...

I have the standard pressure rounds too. I carry those in my New Vaquero. It's a short carry guy.