.45 GAP Compared to +P .45 ACP
- Thread starter petej88
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I compared the hot gap reloads to hot Corbon +P ACP loads (which are very healthy +P loads by the way) to simply show that the gap CAN get in the SAME BALLPARK as the ACP. I DID NOT DECLARE THE GAP THE WINNER. READ MORE SLOWLY SO YOU GET IT RIGHT. You're talking like I broke all the commandments because I didn't use ACP reloads and I, gasp, used hot +P ACP loads instead. Right at the top of my comparison article, I state and I quote, "In the near future we will be able to compare +P .45 ACP ammo against the hottest .45 GAP ammo made by Cor-Bon (another kind of apples and apples)."
So Dick in his article was dammed because he compared gap loads to mellow standard pressure ACP loads. I'm dammed because I compared gap reloads to hot +P ACP loads. Can't you comprehend that I'm just showing what the gap is capable of doing. People have been reloading the ACP for decades now. We all know what it is capable of. That's why it's still one of the best calibers on the market and a joy to shoot.
Have you gone to Speer and asked them what the pressure is for their factory gap loads? My source has.
If the GAP factory ammo is as hot as you say, then the recoil would be signficantly greater than the G21 shooting std .45 ACP loads. Guess what. It isn't. Many shooters have confirmed this. And once again, the gap works fantastic (mellow recoil and extremely accurate) in the 16,500 to 17,500 pressure limit as well.
The bottom line is that you have a lot of good points about the cartridges we are speaking of. A +P ACP reload can be loaded hotter than a max gap reload, and I do mention this on my page by the way, even though you apparently missed it.
Time will tell how the gap does. Maybe it will be eclipsed in the near future by yet another cartridge, or possibly some gun manufactuers may come out with better grips for their ACP pistols to eat away at gap benefits.
I'd really like to hear your opinion after you shoot a G37 or XD45 in gap caliber to see what you think. Don't worry. I do understand your argument of why you think the gap is not necessary.:banghead:
When the next interesting caliber comes out, we can talk again.
I compared the hot gap reloads to hot Corbon +P ACP loads (which are very healthy +P loads by the way) to simply show that the gap CAN get in the SAME BALLPARK as the ACP. I DID NOT DECLARE THE GAP THE WINNER. READ MORE SLOWLY SO YOU GET IT RIGHT. You're talking like I broke all the commandments because I didn't use ACP reloads and I, gasp, used hot +P ACP loads instead. Right at the top of my comparison article, I state and I quote, "In the near future we will be able to compare +P .45 ACP ammo against the hottest .45 GAP ammo made by Cor-Bon (another kind of apples and apples)."
So Dick in his article was dammed because he compared gap loads to mellow standard pressure ACP loads. I'm dammed because I compared gap reloads to hot +P ACP loads. Can't you comprehend that I'm just showing what the gap is capable of doing. People have been reloading the ACP for decades now. We all know what it is capable of. That's why it's still one of the best calibers on the market and a joy to shoot.
Have you gone to Speer and asked them what the pressure is for their factory gap loads? My source has.
If the GAP factory ammo is as hot as you say, then the recoil would be signficantly greater than the G21 shooting std .45 ACP loads. Guess what. It isn't. Many shooters have confirmed this. And once again, the gap works fantastic (mellow recoil and extremely accurate) in the 16,500 to 17,500 pressure limit as well.
The bottom line is that you have a lot of good points about the cartridges we are speaking of. A +P ACP reload can be loaded hotter than a max gap reload, and I do mention this on my page by the way, even though you apparently missed it.
Time will tell how the gap does. Maybe it will be eclipsed in the near future by yet another cartridge, or possibly some gun manufactuers may come out with better grips for their ACP pistols to eat away at gap benefits.
I'd really like to hear your opinion after you shoot a G37 or XD45 in gap caliber to see what you think. Don't worry. I do understand your argument of why you think the gap is not necessary.:banghead:
When the next interesting caliber comes out, we can talk again.
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However, is there any guarentee that brass manufacturers will continue to manufacture brass with that much safety factor built in?
How is the design of the brass specified? What keeps the manufacturers from saving costs after the design become better known?
I'm still waiting to see someone compare .45 ACP and .45 GAP that has acutall average pressure numbers that show both are loaded to the same pressures.
Everything I've read says that a shorter cartridge will have higher average pressures for the same bullet velocity. The only think I've seen from the supporters of the GAP are able to reload brass to the point where it performs as well as ACP without overpressure signs on the brass they used.
I have been convinced by others that the GAP does have it's place, and is a well designed cartridge. I just get a bit irritated by what I view as overzealous support for the cartridge, and would like to see numbers to back up some of the claims some people have made.
Pete is pretty good at backing up his claims, or at least letting you know what they are based on so you can make up your own mind. Others don't seem to be as forthcomming.
If the GAP can be safely loaded to higher pressures, and that's what it takes to get equal or greater performance than the .45 ACP +P, then you're trading off a little snappier recoil for a smaller grip size, which I think is a tradeoff many are willing to make.
I'm still waiting to see someone compare .45 ACP and .45 GAP that has acutall average pressure numbers that show both are loaded to the same pressures.
You have several very good points.
What we really need is to load both the GAP and ACP to the same velocities out of the same kind of gun. And then check the pressures of each round for an accurate comparison. This would have to be done by someone who has the equipment to make it happen. Using felt recoil as a measure may be too subjective especially if one has a preference for a given pistol and caliber
I personally would not like the GAP if it had more recoil snap to it, than standard velocity .45 ACP. While the gap case is shorter, it also uses less powder to achieve the intended velocities. As more people test and experiment, we will get more facts.
cheers
You have several very good points.
What we really need is to load both the GAP and ACP to the same velocities out of the same kind of gun. And then check the pressures of each round for an accurate comparison. This would have to be done by someone who has the equipment to make it happen. Using felt recoil as a measure may be too subjective especially if one has a preference for a given pistol and caliber
I personally would not like the GAP if it had more recoil snap to it, than standard velocity .45 ACP. While the gap case is shorter, it also uses less powder to achieve the intended velocities. As more people test and experiment, we will get more facts.
cheers
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ump59
Member
Hey guys, just fyi. I shoot a S&W 25 and 625, the GAP loads in both of these wheel guns is very pleasant for my wife to shoot. Felt recoil is LESS than the ACPs.
The GAP will fill a niche, it is a fun round, since I didn't have to buy another gun to use it.
Have a great day and keep yer powder dry.
The GAP will fill a niche, it is a fun round, since I didn't have to buy another gun to use it.
Have a great day and keep yer powder dry.
griz
Member
RealGuns had a great article about his new 45 SAP (shorter action pistol, or something like that). He cut another 1/4 inch or so off of the case and seated bullets even deeper. His reasoning was that since the Gap uses less powder, case volume, and recoil to get the same velocity as the ACP, then there must be a point where you could have the 230 grain bullet seated atop a pinch of powder and get the same velocity with no recoil at all.
Of course he was poking fun at the idea, but I think he has a point. Sounds like a case of something for nothing to me.
Disclaimer: I have never fired a 45 GAP, I was just born skeptical.
Of course he was poking fun at the idea, but I think he has a point. Sounds like a case of something for nothing to me.
Disclaimer: I have never fired a 45 GAP, I was just born skeptical.
At www.45gap.com I have a link to the very funny Realguns critique of the gap and the proposed sap cartridge. Look in the Con section
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