45 henry black powder load

[heycods]

A guy on a local reloading group ask if he could shoot black powder loads in his 45 henry, first four responses were No and nope and definatly not. I fail to understand the logic. He didnt clarify if the gun was a 45/70 or a 45 colt. the answers perplexed me. new manufacture gun with modern steel should be able to handle any load an original gun disigned around a BP load should. What am I missing?

 

[Noz]

I'll bet they were assuming the 45 Henry was made by the modern made Henry rifle company. They can handle the pressure easily just not the fouling.

 

[StrawHat]

I'll bet they were assuming the 45 Henry was made by the modern made Henry rifle company. They can handle the pressure easily just not the fouling.

What kind of a rifle can not handle black powder fouling? Winchester lever actions, through the Model 1895, were chambered in black powder cartridges. Marlin did the same. What kind of rifle is the Henry?

 

[Dmitri Popov]

I figure it would handle it fine. Just have to use an appropriate lube, and be preparred to clean it. I can see no reason you could not use BP in these rifles.

 

[Panzerschwein]

This is a prime example that something someone tells you on the internet isn't always true.

Black powder is perfectly fine in that gun, which I assume is a lever action of some kind.

 

[whughett]

Yikes: I have enough trouble keeping a simple cap and ball revolver in pristine condition, a lever action rifle must be a real chore to clean after a range session with black powder.

 

[Noz]

Again, I give up.

 

[Mike OTDP]

A repro of the 1860 Henry? Of course you can shoot it with BP. It was designed for that.

 

[4v50 Gary]

No? Geez. So long as it's cleaned afterward, why not?

 

[ridgerunner1965]

either a modern henry rifle or a repro of the old henry would be safe with black powder.

id want to flush good with hot soapy water afterwards. and maybe a complete teardown every third time i shot it. if it is a orignal henry id not shoot it at all.

 

[S Anderson]

Henry Rifle

I have an original Henry rifle that is chambered in 44-40 and a friend has a reproduction I believe was made by Uberti which is also a 44-40. The repro. has a thicker mag. tube than mine and does not get all dented. I have fired it about ten times by loading a single round in the chamber, the mag. tube is so thin that the years of dents make the cartridges not slide worth a hoot. If it had ever had a front hand guard it would have probably never had this problem- bad design from the git-go. I have heard that the 1866 Winchester is nothing more than a Henry with a front hand guard, anyone know anything about that? Did Winchester adopt the Henry design and call it their own?

 

[Jim Watson]

Please show pictures and all possible details of original Henry in .44-40.

 

[Don McDowell]

I have an original Henry rifle that is chambered in 44-40 and a friend has a reproduction I believe was made by Uberti which is also a 44-40. The repro. has a thicker mag. tube than mine and does not get all dented. I have fired it about ten times by loading a single round in the chamber, the mag. tube is so thin that the years of dents make the cartridges not slide worth a hoot. If it had ever had a front hand guard it would have probably never had this problem- bad design from the git-go. I have heard that the 1866 Winchester is nothing more than a Henry with a front hand guard, anyone know anything about that? Did Winchester adopt the Henry design and call it their own?

If that Henry of yours is truly in 44-40, I doubt even Lloyds of London would insure it...
Tyler B Henry became an employee of Oliver F Winchester.
The 1866 is based off of the Henry, but besides the forearm, was the first to employ the side loading gate. Both were chambered in 44 henry (rimfire) which was 44 caliber, but only used a 28 gr charge.
The 44 wcf came out with the Model of 1873.

 

[the Black Spot]

Some people just dont understand blackpowder. I have shot it for years in several cartridges from 38 spec to 45 colt, shotguns, 303 British, 444 marlin, 44 mag.

Just do your research on how to load for it.

If I had a typical bolt action in .243 i could shoot bp out of it.

Would not try it in a gas operated gun, cuz the fouling would clog gas ports.

Cleaning is no harder than smokeless.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

A modern Henry as in the ones made in jersey have modern shallow micro groove style rifling. They require hard bullets and generally don't do well with black powder fouling

 

[Jim K]

The modern Henry company makes rifles in both .45 Colt and .45-70, either of which was originally made for black powder.

As for an original Henry in .44-40, you couldn't even convert an original Henry to take the .44-40, since the round is too long for the carrier. But when the CF Fourth Model 1866 came out, a few Henrys and older Winchesters were converted by gunsmiths to take the .44 Henry Flat CF, which is identical to the RF cartridge except for the primer. I don't know if there were any factory conversions; I do know there were darned few of the CF 1866 to start with.

Jim

 

[EljaySL]

A modern Henry as in the ones made in jersey have modern shallow micro groove style rifling. They require hard bullets and generally don't do well with black powder fouling

Any feeling as to what this would mean as a practical matter? Loss of accuracy if you don't clean the bore a bit each time you load it back up?

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Besides being a pia to clean, the softer lead bullets normally shot with black would strip through the rifling. The usual lube for hard bullets, alox, does not keep the fouling soft. When a little fouling builds up pressures become inconsistent and bullets can be deformed. A design with a crisp square shoulder like some wad cutters can act like a scraper to help clear the fouling but a round point built does not scrape the rifling.

 

[Dmitri Popov]

Even with the micro-groove rifling, the use of proper (Black Powder) lube should prevent leading, and keep fouling soft. I think we need to know what bullet the OP plans to use for his load so we can make suggestions based on that important detail.

 

[Don McDowell]

Dmitri is right, assuming the use of a quality bp lube, Bullshop Nasa, BSC, or others, and a good powder such as KIK, Olde Eynsford, Schuetzen, there should be no major problems.
16-1 and 14-1 alloy bullets were pretty common back in the 1870's, and those alloys still work in todays guns.

 

[EljaySL]

I definitely wouldn't use alox with black powder.

 

[Pulp]

The only downside I can think of is the BP will quickly put spots on the brass. If said shooter wants to keep his shiny new brass frame shiny and new looking he will have to work harder at it when shooting BP. By the end of a CAS match my Uberti Henry will already have stain spots developing on the frame. They can be cleaned off, but it's a bit of work.

I've always heard micro groove rifling and BP don't love each other very much, but since I've never owned a rifle with micro groove rifling I can't really speak on that subject.

 

[heycods]

Thanks fellers, confirmed my thoughts on the matter. I have no knowlege of what henry rifle he owns, as usual on FB post. Not enough details.