.45 Hollowpoints

[BlindJustice]

Enough responders with no problems with hollowpoints
relating their personal experience is good nuff for me.

Randall - My name is on each post I send out no matter
the handle and yeah I am legally blind but I have assistive
sofrware that reads every word aloud
and I can still pepper a man size silhouette at 7-10 yards
enjoying my 1911, 625, CZ 75B and other handguns.

 

[Jaenak]

All this feedback is helpful. Thanks. I've never really thought of buying an older 1911, I always wanted to buy a new Kimber so I figure I should be okay judging by what all you have said.

My last question is if hollowpoints feed just fine in a decent 1911, why do so many people use FMJ rounds instead? I understand a .45ACP is big enough but if a hollowpoint works just fine, why not?

 

[possum]

My last question is if hollowpoints feed just fine in a decent 1911, why do so many people use FMJ rounds instead? I understand a .45ACP is big enough but if a hollowpoint works just fine, why not?

in a pinch fmj is fine, especailly .45acp, as compared to the other common handgun calibers, but with that said there is a reason that the police depts use jhp's, they found out real quick(lapd especially) that the fmj rds would go through and through. over penetrate if you will, and as every leo, and armed citizen is responsible for every round that is fired and where it ends up. you can see how that can be dangerous to bystandards in a gun fight, as well the round would go through the intended perp but wouldn't do the deed and still have the potential and in some cases did hit other leo/ bystandards, and killing the said bystandard or leo, not always but there was enough innocent bystandards and fellow leo's to get hit for the police to relook and re think the use of fmj ammo.

you want the round to stay contained in the body as to avoid damage and harm to inoccent bystandards, over pemetration as well as you want maximum energy deposit into the target, and to do so you need the round to stay in the body.

 

[Neckshot5seven]

don't screw with it and keep a hp in the chamber and backed up by a gaggle of hardball in the magizine. It really doesn't matter HP or FMJ with a .45ACP you get hit with anything like that you are going down

 

[Chuck Spears]

It really doesn't matter HP or FMJ with a .45ACP you get hit with anything like that you are going down.

It's just a pistol cartridge. Getting hit with a .45 doesn't necessarily mean you are going down.

 

[Neckshot5seven]

cuz you have taken a hit to the mid section with a .45 EXTREM SHOCK!!!! and keep going like the energizer bunny!! yea. No really... Any body that has been hit in the torso at pistol range with a 45 usually does not take another step. I have witnessed a man get shot by our sheriffs department and he just doubled over and that was the end of it. Not saying that that case was the end all for all gunshots, but just as stitistics say over 60% of .45acp hardball shootings is a one stop shot.

 

[kitsapcharly]

FMJ is all I want in my 45. Being that it's 45 and doesn't get smaller it has lots of frontal area to start with. Browning at first was thinking of a 200-grain bullet but when the bullet design was finalized at 230 spring rates, slide weight, etc. was all adjusted to that weight and length and the other 45ACPs are also set up for this weight and design of round. I want the highest reliability possible.
You should also note that surveys of actual police shootings claim that more than 80% of their shots miss completely so "over-penetration" is an old theory that doesn't relate to the real world. Those missed shots will do far more damage. The F.B.I. claims a mnimum penetration of 12" is needed because of odd angles often involved and more is always better to shoot through barriers like doors, tables etc..
In 1911 horsecavalry was still a major part of everybody's military and the round was tested a lot in the Chicago stockyards on horses and cattle both dead and alive as well as about 20 human cadavers. The 45 ball was and is at least fairly good on black bears, cougars, alligators, wild dog packs and you-name-it. Big magnums would be better but hard to conceal and slow on follow-up shots dueto recoil issues. Only suitable in hunting situations really.
FMJ also penetrates cars fairly well. Cars are fearsome weapons if somebody tries to run you down. Drive-by shooters use them and attackers are liable to fire at you from behind one. You may need penetration at times.
For all-around, general purpose, do everything with one gun a 45 with 230 grain ball ammunition is the best basic answer available. It's my choice at home, hiking, shopping, wherever. Not claiming it's perfect but the best overall compromise.

 

[possum]

don't screw with it and keep a hp in the chamber and backed up by a gaggle of hardball in the magizine. It really doesn't matter HP or FMJ with a .45ACP you get hit with anything like that you are going down

A handgun is a means to a long gun.
80% of poeple shot with a handgun survive. also why are you talking about jhp's working so effectivly in the quote below, you even seen it with your own eyes. Post like this lead me to believe that you are posting falshoods and you have no idea what you are posting about. maybe i am wrong, maybe not either way you are taking to different sides in 2 different post. but here you are saying that you don't need them.

cuz you have taken a hit to the mid section with a .45 EXTREM SHOCK!!!!

ok lets look at this, first off the "mid section" is not the desired point of impact. the high center chest is, 2nd you buy into the mall ninja "extreme shock"? let me guess you must use the anti terroist round, because it sends them to thier maker, and thier virgins and all that crap huh? or no maybe you use the air freedom round, so you don't puncture the walls of the airplane, where you are not allowed to carry your gun in the first place. I highly highly doubt that there is any Leo department that uses "extreme shock"

obviously people that post replies like this need to attend a training course, especially about the legal consequenses that can occur, like i said before you are responsible for every round that is launched out of that gun. If you want to take a chance and have the bullet go through and thorugh fine but i won't.

 

[Chuck Spears]

cuz you have taken a hit to the mid section with a .45 EXTREM SHOCK!!!! and keep going like the energizer bunny!! yea. No really... Any body that has been hit in the torso at pistol range with a 45 usually does not take another step. I have witnessed a man get shot by our sheriffs department and he just doubled over and that was the end of it. Not saying that that case was the end all for all gunshots, but just as stitistics say over 60% of .45acp hardball shootings is a one stop shot.

Realistically someone should. But there's just way too many stories of folks getting a lead salad to the torso and still fighting back. Like the highway patrolman who emptied his .357 revolver into a guy and he was still able to move forward and kill the cop with a single shot from his .22. Gun shot wounds are a weird thing. You have no idea what to expect since there are entirely too many variables in the equation. If someone can take six .357 bullets to their center mass and still be in attack mode then that leaves a lot of room for someone to take a single .45 in COM and still be combat effective.

 

[possum]

You should also note that surveys of actual police shootings claim that more than 80% of their shots miss completely so "over-penetration" is an old theory that doesn't relate to the real world. Those missed shots will do far more damage.

maybe you should direct this comment to Massad Ayoob, he is a member here, and he has written several articles, books and such on this topic.

 

[possum]

the reason the .45acp was developed was because of the goings on in the philippians, and the ill effect that the .38 was having on the enemy, so they needed something better. so then came the .45acp the funny thing is if you read the documentation of the accounts of the conflicts after the .45 acp was used then, not the bs that people think and assume now, but what really happened. it didn't change anything and there was no advantage with the .45acp, as far as stopping power again a handgun is a means to a long gun.

 

[possum]

I don't know where some of you get your experience, theories and such, and i am sure that some of you have 1st hand accounts of what you write, and you have seen and been around sittuations that give the ability to say and believe what you write.

Some of you know me, and some of you don't. I am a SGT in the US Army Infantry, i have spent 27 months in the "sandbox" in total. I will not go into detail, but i will say that what i write about and what i state in these post and in verbal communications with people is what i have seen and been expossed too, in multiple months of combat operations as an Infantry man. I have seen the effects of handguns, rifles, ied's, grenades, rockets, rpg's,vbieds, and handgun caliber smg's and the like. I don't troll for stuff like this where i can post info that sounds cool or looks good, but i tell you what i know and i have seen from experience. Otherwise i would be doing you all a great discredit by not passing on what i have seen in that war zone to the americans that have the right and need to defend themselves. You have the right to know what works and what dosen't. it is better for someon like me to tell you with the amount of experience that i have, than for one of you to find out the wrong way and end up dead because of it.

handguns are second rate, but they get the job done for ccw and the like, jhp's fmj's whatever it dosen't matter, handguns no matter what caliber and what the arm chair commandos on the forums say they are crap, as compared to a rifle, it is just to bad that we can't carry a rifle around all the time as ccw. so what is the answer oh wise one you might ask. have a rifle near you, have a handgun on your side. if you get into that fight of your life, use the handgun to fight to the rifle, and then end the fight if it ain't already.

a rifle is better.
a bunch of buddies with rifles are even better.
have a great day.[/B]

 

[Chuck Spears]

Nobody disputes that. Folks are just disputing whether you can rely on a handgun cartridge to effectively eliminate a threat. Many times you can. Many times you can't. The point is the to be prepared for the case where it didn't eliminate the threat. Just bc you put a double tap into someone's chest doesn't mean they are dead. Plenty of cops and soldiers and crime victims have made that mistake and paid for it with their lives. You need to keep your guard up until you know for a fact that the situation is over.

 

[possum]

you are right,good post Chuck.

 

[roo_ster]

Jaenak:

I will attempt to directly address your questions.

Why does .45 hollowpoints have such bad feeding issues compared to other calibers of hollowpoints?
There are other pistols that have had some feeding problems in the past with hollow points. Usually, these were designs, like the 1911, that came off the drawing boards before hollow points became popular. As such, they were designed to feed FMJ/hardball.

So, it is not just a .45ACP or 1911 phenomenon. The reason that .45ACP is so often mentioned is that the 1911 is the most popular pistol in the USA...and most 1911s are chambered for .45ACP.

Most 1911 manufacturers have gotten with the times and have slightly modified the 1911 to be HP-friendly.

Is there a way to rectify the situation or are these pistols forever restricted to .45 ball only.

Usually a competent gunsmith can diagnose the problem & fix it.

Here's a dirty little secret: most semi-auto pistol failures are magazine-related. Instead of mucking with the pistol's feed ramp, a change to a quality or different quality magazine will do the trick.

Some pistols are not worth getting up & running with hollow points. For instance, my 3" bbl AMT double-action only Backup will not reliably get expansion form hollow points. So, it gets a diet of hardball.

Also, I'm not sure what 1911 style pistols were being specifically named. I was just talking to some various people over the course of the last few months about their favorite 45's.

Likely, old Colts that were produced prior to the 1911 patents going public. However, some sloppy manufacturers produced truly atrocious examples of 1911s and will pay for their crimes in the afterlife as John Moses Browning's shade kicks them in the jimmy for all eternity.

 

[Neckshot5seven]

I was not saying 2 different things. If you would read my sarcastic post I was poking fun about the extreme shock thing and my point was 60% of .45ACP hardball hits result in a one shot stop. If his gun has trouble feeding hollow points then feed it what it likes. Krap for that matter doubletap that fella, last time i counted on my fingers 60% + 60% = 120% Use what the gun likes, if it feeds hp's then use em. If not use hardball. Point is hardball will kill something just as dead as super golddot platinumgoldensaberextremeshock ninja bullets will

 

[Stephen A. Camp]

Once again, a thread gets locked because a few just cannot stay on THR.