.45 Special loads

[jski]

Just got my 250 Starline .45 Special cases. Thinking about how I should loads these?

I've decided to go with my 255 gr. GC cast bullets plus Unique powder.

Now the question: between 5.5 and 6.5 gr. where does the best load lie?

 

[joneb]

Is this similar to the 45 auto rim or 45 Schofield?

 

[jski]

This is from the Starline catalog:

45 Cowboy Special (Large Pistol primer)

Cowboy 45 Special, 45 SPL, C45S
0.892 - 0.896 O.A.L.
The Cowboy .45 Special is a case that is optimized for use with light loads in .45 Colt caliber revolvers for Cowboy Action Shooting. Light loads with excessive airspace are a recipe for case splits and erratic function. By using the Cowboy .45 Special case, with its .45 Colt rim and .45 Auto length, the problem no longer exists. While many claim that .45 Auto load data can be used in this caliber, it is important to realize the limitations of the firearm it is chambered in and only use loads that fall within the pressure range of that firearm. Generally these can be loaded using .45 Colt dies and a modified (shortened) crimp die, or .45 Auto Rim roll crimp die.

Starline has just started making this brass available. It is test to .45ACP pressure levels.

I will be using my .45 Colt S&W Mountain Gun.

The data I found online about .45ACP loads greater than 220 gr. is limited but I found some. And Unique seems to be a popular choice.

 

[joneb]

Thanks for cluing me in, I am ignorant about the cartridge you are reloading but I would wager Unique would be a excellent powder choice. Just guessin.
What firearm are you shooting these in ?

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Since I use a a lot of W231 and HS-6 that's what I would be loading. I shoot a lot of HS-6 in the 45 Colt now that I tried it.

 

[joneb]

As ArchAngelCD posted W-231 might be a excellent powder choice, it does meter much better than Unique.

 

[jski]

Joneb, I will be using my .45 Colt S&W Mountain Gun.

And what's this about Unique being difficult to measure accurate loads with?

 

[Charlie98]

And what's this about Unique being difficult to measure accurate loads with?

Just ignore comments like that... you don't need that kind of negativity in your life.

Having said that, the only time I've had problems measuring Unique, was with a very new, plastic bodied powder drop. Now that it's had about 40# of powder through it, I don't have that problem.

 

[BigBore45]

Im Sorry but i fail to see the point in this special case. Seems like a sales gimmick to get new loaders to buy new brass.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Im Sorry but i fail to see the point in this special case. Seems like a sales gimmick to get new loaders to buy new brass.

I agree, that's why I didn't buy them. I have never had a problem when loading 45 Colt cases. So many shooters don't like shooting .38s in a .357 or .44 Spl in a .44 Mag but this somehow is a good idea?
(I'm not one if those who don't like shooting specials in magnum revolvers)

 

[cfullgraf]

With my 45 Colt loads with 8.0 grains of Unique, the velocity is very sensitive to the position of the powder in the case. I usually see about a 10% difference between the powder starting against the bullet vs the powder starting agains the primer. This can only get worse if you reduce the powder charges so frequently desired by the cowboy action shooters. The 45 Colt case was designed for black powder and higher energy smokeless powder just does not need the internal case volume to perform.

So, a smaller case would improve performance of lighter charges of smokeless powders.

Unique is the only powder that I have tested the position sensitivity in the 45 Colt so other powders may not show any issues. Of course, stronger loads will be more consistent as well as with high volume powders like Trail Boss.

 

[CraigC]

I only have issues with Unique metering in charges under 6.0gr. For that, I use Titegroup, namely in the .38Spl and .44Colt.

Im Sorry but i fail to see the point in this special case. Seems like a sales gimmick to get new loaders to buy new brass.

It's not a gimmick, as the demand existed before the supply. It's aimed at the cowboy action crowd, for they invented it and asked for it. The .45Colt case is a lot of wasted space for light to moderate loads. The .45CS is a solution. More efficient with light bullets and light powder charges with the distinct advantage of more positive ejection of empties.

 

[ATLDave]

I would think one of the advantages of the smaller case is that one could use a faster powder than Unique. So maybe the same powders one would use for target .45 ACP loads....

 

[santacruzdave]

Found some info on youtube:

 

[BigBore45]

I guess I get it. Lol wonder what real cowboys would say to all the action shooter loading mouse fart loads. And it seems to me trying a shorter case to get better shell extraction is cheating the whole purpose of the match. Might as well take a 1911 and ar-15 chambered in 300 blk. Lol close enough.

Also if you have a problem with a certain powder why not just switch powder? I have loaded 200 grain bullets down to 600 fps in a 45 colt with no problem with velocity changes. Used accurate #2 and titegroup.

 

[Crunchy Frog]

I think the real utility of this case is for use with black powder where you don’t want air space between the powder charge and the base of the bullet.

 

[jski]

Talked to Hunter at Starline, their tech guy. Four points:

a) the .45 Special case is the same as the .45 ACP and .45 AR, except for a different head (i.e., rim).

b) there's NO problem with accuracy because of the shorter case. (The gap between the bullet in its case and the forcing cone isn't a problem because, before the bullet jumps from the cylinder to the forcing cone, it must first go thru the chamber throat. Lining it up with the forcing cone.)

c) the .45 Special had been under a exclusive license with another company and that's expired. It was added to the Starline catalog in November.

d) use .45ACP load data for this case.

 

[jski]

BTW, the Starline tech also added an offhand comment I didn't follow up on: Starline realized that people will certainly try to push the limits of this brass.

 

[murf]

With my 45 Colt loads with 8.0 grains of Unique, the velocity is very sensitive to the position of the powder in the case. I usually see about a 10% difference between the powder starting against the bullet vs the powder starting agains the primer. This can only get worse if you reduce the powder charges so frequently desired by the cowboy action shooters. The 45 Colt case was designed for black powder and higher energy smokeless powder just does not need the internal case volume to perform.

So, a smaller case would improve performance of lighter charges of smokeless powders.

Unique is the only powder that I have tested the position sensitivity in the 45 Colt so other powders may not show any issues. Of course, stronger loads will be more consistent as well as with high volume powders like Trail Boss.

hs-6 is quite position sensitive in the 45lc.

fyi,

murf

 

[ATLDave]

Given the vast "boiler room" of 45 LC, I expect it would be the exceptional powder that was not position sensitive!

 

[murf]

i also had a pressure spike when doing the testing. i stopped using this powder in my blackhawk and went back to blue dot. i'll dig up the data when i get back home and double check to see if the spike was powder forward, or powder back.

murf

 

[cfullgraf]

Given the vast "boiler room" of 45 LC, I expect it would be the exceptional powder that was not position sensitive!

I believe the problem is when the powder gets too far away from the primer, or below the path of the primer jet, it does not ignite well.

Kind of similar as the reason when folks load extremely rifle ammunition, the fill the case with kapok or something similar to keep the powder back against the primer.

 

[ATLDave]

Yep, or when it gets spread as an even layer of powder along the bottom edge of the jet, maybe it ignites too well.

I'm sure all powders are position sensitive to a degree (probably hard to light a 4 grain charge of titegroup settled against the bullet base of a 50 BMG!), but some are more so than others.

 

[cp1969]

Talked to Hunter at Starline, their tech guy. Three points:



b) there's NO problem with accuracy because of the shorter case. (The gap between the bullet in its case and the forcing cone isn't a problem because, before the bullet jumps from the cylinder to the forcing cone, it must first go thru the chamber throat. Lining it up with the forcing cone.)

Yeah, but...the closer the bullet is to the chamber throat before firing, the better.

 

[ATLDave]

Yeah, but...the closer the bullet is to the chamber throat before firing, the better.

Eh, maybe, maybe not. Certainly many people get excellent accuracy out of .38 specials in a .357. And a good fraction of competitive revolver shooters in IPSC/USPSA actually load using .38 Colt brass (about half the length of 38 spl) and then run it through a 627 (a .357 N-frame). IDK if this has any negative impact on accuracy at all, but, if it does, it's not enough to be significant to those competitors.