.450 Marlin

[One-Time]

I saw a levergun i want but its chambered in .450 Marlin, Im not familair w/ the cartridge.

In as short terms as possible, what is the difference between a 45/70 and a .450 Marlin? I wanted a 45/70 but know nothing about this other round

thanks

 

[blitzen]

short and simple is all I know. .450 marlin brass is built to withstand higher pressure. A hot rodded 45-70 if you will.

 

[Jim Watson]

.450 Marlin is about like a very high end .45-70.
I guess its best use would be if you also owned a Trapdoor and did not want to take the chance of getting a 2000 fps load in your 1100 fps gun.

 

[NCsmitty]

Both cartridges can be classed together as the 450 Marlin lists a 350gr bullet at 2100fps and 3400+ ftlb of energy.
The 45-70 can get around 1900fps with a 405gr and 3200ftlb of energy in the Marlin lever guns. The 45-70 ballistics as listed at Conley Precision Cartridge for use in the Marlin.
I've fired the 450 Marlin, and it is a potent round, as is the 45-70 loaded to it's potential.

Here's Hornady's site featuring the Leverevolution ammo and ballistics.

http://www.hornady.com/store/450-Marlin-325-gr-FTX-LEVERevolution/


NCsmitty

 

[CraigC]

Simple. The .450 was designed to do from the factory what the .45-70 can only do with handloads or expensive ammo from specialty loaders like Buffalo Bore and CorBon. If you handload, there's no reason to buy a .450.

 

[Gryffydd]

With hand loads they're pretty much identical, though most load data I've seen gives the edge to the .45-70. The only real reason for the .450 Marlin to even exist is that it can't be chambered in older, weaker guns and eliminates the confusion of "What level of load can this .45-70 shoot?"

 

[Utah1]

If you load your own, I'd think you'd be better off getting a 45-70.

 

[rcmodel]

+1

You can pretty much find 45-70 ammo everywhere.

You might not find ammo for a .450 Marlin anywhere except mail order.

rc

 

[Badlander]

You will not find any mild .450 factory loads. If shooting hot rods all the time is what you are looking for the .450 is your rifle.

 

[Leaky Waders]

I agree with everyone above. I was looking at the 450 for awhile and decided on a 45-70...mainly for brass availability - I ended up getting a new production 1886 with some minor customized touches on it.

 

[One-Time]

Ok, so a .450 is like a hot 45-70 and ammo is hard to find and likely expensive

I think Ill keep looking and just get a 45-70

thanks!

 

[Ridgerunner665]

Good choice IMO One-Time,

The 450 was developed to be a SAAMI compliant "modern 45-70 load" that could not be fired in the older guns.

The belt prevents that from happening...the 450 is loaded to 43,500 CUP (SAAMI spec) in factory form, the 45-70 can also be hand loaded to the pressure, but I find that 36,000 CUP is PLENTY...that will sling a 405 grain cast bullet at 1,900 fps and take down anything on this side of the world with some major authority.

 

[ms6852]

A friend of mine gave me a 450 marlin as a gift the first year it came out. It is the guide gun with a ported barrel which measure 18 1'2 inches. It kicks like two mules at the same time. He want me to back him up in Alaska where he retired whenever he goes bear hunting. Just haven't gotten around to it. But as everyone has stated it like shooting a 45-70 with a very hot load. Check link below for detailed information.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/450Marlin.htm

 

[Ridgerunner665]

I stand by my previous post above but due to some things that I just recently figured out I want to add this here...

I have been a fan of the 45-70 for a long time but I only got serious about the caliber about a year ago...I simply got bored with long range stuff so I waded in up to my neck with the 45-70.

It can be a tricky round to reload for especially with cast bullets...I'm just gonna quote a post I made on Marlin Owners forum instead of typing it all out again...this concerns the bulge at the base of the bullet when seating .460" diameter cast bullets in the 45-70...the 450 does not suffer from this and the popular saying that the 450 was simply a means of keeping hot loaded ammo out of old guns isn't the whole truth...the 450 has a few other minor improvements too.

One of the things about driving all day, every day...

It gives you lots of time to think (sometimes even in depth, seemingly intelligent stuff...key word there is seemingly)

Today while cruising in the snow I was trying to reason out why dies are made to size the mouth at .450" (ID) and deciding if I knew how to make my own dies. RD got me on the right train of thought, neck tension and seating depth.

When looking at cartridge drawings ( http://www.leverguns.com/dimensions/images/4570.jpg ) and reading, its always suggested that the 45-70 case tapers from .500 or so (some drawings vary a tad here) down to .480" (OD) at the mouth...but I "THINK" the drawings left out a measurement.

They don't show the measurement across the brass at the base of the seated bullet...the brass is supposed to taper to .480" (OD) at the base of the bullet and then its straight from the base of the bullet up to the mouth...its not supposed to taper all the way up (the fact that I have been overlooking)

Any die made to size the brass this way would be bullet specific (as far as seating depth goes)...At first thought it would seem you could engineer the die around the bullet that seats the deepest (the RD 425 in my case, YMMV) and make it so the ID of the mouth is .455", but if you did that then seated the RD 350, you'd still have a slight bulge at the base of the shorter bullet...

At least now I understand why we have the bulge...can I make a die (or dies) that will eliminate it? I think...but I'm holding off judgement on that for now .

Now I'm wondering about Marlins chamber specs...and if that will cause any problems.


This all boils down to seating depth though....back in the day, most of the bullet was outside the brass, not in it. And after today...the 450 Marlin makes a lot more sense to me than it used to, it serves a greater purpose than just keeping hot loads out of old guns...it solved other issues too...but I still don't want one

You guys probably think I'm nuts for pondering on this like I have...but thats just the way my mind works. I have to "understand" why...somebody (RCBS, Lee, Lyman, and Redding for example) telling me "because thats the way we make them" just doesn't do it for me.

A link to the thread...it is something to think about when deciding between these 2 rounds, both are great (they are identical in performance)...and I still prefer the old timer (45-70)

http://www.marlinowners.com/forums/index.php/topic,80827.0.html