450 marlin, am I missing something

[Booger66]

To be as short as possible.

The 45-70 is an awesome round, the only drawback (in my opinion) is the rim, nearly making it a lever gun only. The 450 marlin solves this problem, but then.... This is what confuses me..... They put the new rimless cartridge (that can now be put in a variety of platforms) primarily in a levergun (which is the 45-70s domain)

Is there a reason why marlin and other companies did not capitalize on this round especially with the flexibility of it being rimless?

I know cash is King and fixes this problem with custom builds. However, as most will agree, buying off the shelf is cheaper.

Thank you in advance, and I apologize for any ignorance I have on this subject.

 

[Varminterror]

Not many folks have a need for an odd length, relatively under powered big bore. Autoloaders aren’t going to feed the belt really any better than they would have the rim, and stickshifts have other, better options. I’m not sure the belt would feed reliably in existing belted mag cartridge mag boxes (larger belt diameter than the traditional belted mags) - it might be within the mag box tolerance, but might not be. What would the end result be, relative to say a 458 win mag? It fits in a short action, but doesn’t offer the top end performance of the win mag - which is already a low volume seller itself.

The 450 Marlin served a select market during a select era - it was for folks who wanted Marlin Only 45-70 performance without reloading, in a time when factory Marlin Only ammunition weren’t available.

I’m sure a smith can rebarrel a short action mag bolt face action to .450 Marlin, and assuredly, someone has. But there’s really not that much interest in that class of cartridges.

 

[Elkins45]

If you want a big bore bolt gun there are already plenty of options, including the 458 Win that fits an existing action size.

The intent of the 450 Marlin was essentially to allow ammo makers to load a 45-70 like cartridge from the factory that was up to the full potential of the rifle design without worrying about blowing up 100 year old legacy rifles. Nobody’s going to shoot a 450 Marlin in a trapdoor Springfield. It was never intended to compete with elephant guns. It was only intended to bring heavy handload performance to factory loaded lever gun ammo.

 

[Booger66]

That actually makes a lot of sense. Thank you for enlightening me I still wish the cartridge would of been more of a success. But then again I'm sure there are a lot of good cartridges that are often overlooked.

 

[Elkins45]

That actually makes a lot of sense. Thank you for enlightening me I still wish the cartridge would of been more of a success. But then again I'm sure there are a lot of good cartridges that are often overlooked.

As far was I know Hornady is still making brass of rit, so if you're a handloader it's still a viable cartridge. I know if I stumbled across a great deal on a 450 Marlin rifle I would buy it. Fortunately for me I already stumbled across a great deal on an 1895 so it would be a bit redundant.

 

[Jim Watson]

Trivia Warning:

If you must have a bolt action .45-90, there is the wildcat .458 x 2" American. Just cut off any belted case to 2" and you are set. (The Marlin has a wider belt so you can't get it in say a 7mm RM which would be briefly exciting.)

One gunzine writer had a .458 Magnum chambered with a short throat for lighter bullets than 510 gr steel jackets.
In the early days of the BPCR revival, before anybody tooled up for cases longer than 2.1", there were some .45 x 2 1/2" belted single shots built up.

 

[StrawHat]

Trivia Warning:

If you must have a bolt action .45-90, there is the wildcat .458 x 2" American. Just cut off any belted case to 2" and you are set. (The Marlin has a wider belt so you can't get it in say a 7mm RM which would be briefly exciting.)

One gunzine writer had a .458 Magnum chambered with a short throat for lighter bullets than 510 gr steel jackets.
In the early days of the BPCR revival, before anybody tooled up for cases longer than 2.1", there were some .45 x 2 1/2" belted single shots built up.

Yep, the Marlin is just a legitimized wildcat. I had a Remington 600 built or the 458 American (458 x2”) it was a good rifle. I had a 22” barrel on it but it was paper thin. Just enough metal to keep it from bursting. As i remember loaded and scoped, right at 6 1/2 pounds. Not fantastically lightweight by todays standards but in the 80s it was. And it was a 45 caliber. After using it a few years it went down the road to finance my next project.

It would be nice to see a lighter bolt rifle set up for the Marlin cartridge. Same bolt face as the H&H so should not be an issue.

Kevin

 

[someguy2800]

In today's market it sits between the 450 bushmaster, which is available in a few bolt actions and is popular in a few states that require straight wall rifle cartridges for deer hunting, and the 458 winchester. I don't think there is really much of a market for something in the middle. 450 bushmaster is already more oomph than many people want so that takes those people out, and for the guys that want a real thumper in a long action bolt rifle, why not use all of that length with the 458 win?

 

[earlthegoat2]

Marlin was and still is primarily a lever action rifle manufacturer. They designed the 450 not for, at time, a newly developed bolt action but rather for the rifle everybody knew Marlin for, the lever action.

With 20/20 hindsight, one wonders why Marlin did not unveil this .450 Marlin cartridge and chamber it in the reworked 1895 rifle instead of in 45-70. It would have solved all the problems with the underpowered 45-70s of the day. Its not like Marlin didn't have experience with modifying their 336 action to handle a relatively hot cartridge from only a few years prior, the 444 Marlin. Perhaps they didn't want to compete with their own cartridge by introducing a new one that at the time, would have solved a few 444 Marlin problems as well. That being the poorly constructed bullets they were first loaded with. There were plenty of applicable bullets in .458 diameter.

That's the thing with hindsight though. Im sure the 45-70 developments over the years is what gave them the insight into what a new similar cartridge would have to incorporate while giving non-handloaders top end 45-70 power out of the 1895 rifle.

Some minutiae:

The rimless design of the cartridge can make cycling smoother than having to deal with the gigantic rim of 45-70.
The rimless design makes the cartridges feed into and out of the magazine tube easier.
Thicker case walls improve case life and specifically, the thicker case mouth makes the bullet seating more firm with less dramatic of a crimp needed. There are workarounds for this in 45-70 rifles but the 450 solved the problem at the source.

I agree though, that these are solutions to problems that if they exist, are not big enough problems at all.

 

[CraigC]

The 450 Marlin served a select market during a select era - it was for folks who wanted Marlin Only 45-70 performance without reloading, in a time when factory Marlin Only ammunition weren’t available.

Bingo! That is its sole reason for being.

 

[Varminterror]

I still wish the cartridge would of been more of a success.

Well... it wasn’t a failure...

It might not be on any top 10 sales lists, but the 450 Marlin did what it was intended. It targeted a niche market, and it delivered for that niche.

It’s still a viable cartridge, factory ammo still available, and plenty of rifles were made, so if a guy wants one, they’re around. If a guy finds one which tickles his fancy, buying it won’t be a mistake.

A 45-70 Marlin 1895 might be a better choice for someone seeking a lever actuated hammer, or a 458wm bolt gun a better choice if you were seeking a heavy stickshift (or even a 450bush in the current market, for a less-than-Magnum option), but for any problem solved by a 45-70, the 450M isn’t ever a “wrong answer.”

 

[Elkins45]

I wanted to buy one but I stumbled across this 45-70 and a dozen boxes of ammo at a recent gun show for $600.