The Misunderstood .450 Marlin

[Asherdan]

This is the best additional use for the 450 Marlin that I've seen brought up. For someone that needs it, that is a heck of an option.

The 450 Marlin, (introduced in 2000) which as already pointed out is really a legitimate version of the 458 x 2 inch American, is becoming fairly popular up here in Alaska. Both in the Marlin lever carbines and the Browning BLR. Although repeated firings in a lightweight version of the BLR are rather painful.

The COL for lever guns runs around 2.52 or 2.53 inches COL. And you can push a 350 grain round nose to 2,200 fps if you work at it with H-322.

What we are seeing more of up here is converting short action bolt rifles to this caliber. Mush as what was intended for the original 458x2.

A prime candidate is the Ruger M77MKII Stainless factory chambered in 350 Rem Mag. It will allow loading to 2.800 COL. PLUS, the magazine and bolt are already set up for the right sized belted case. I have also seen a couple converted Remington 673s.

The extended COL and the bolt action give you a little more room for working up loads.

 

[natman]

I think the smaller, lighter rifles concept comes from making a bolt action .450 Marlin instead of something like the 1895G.

Thanks for clearing that up. Yes, the 450 Marlin would be more suitable for bolt action use. Neither Cosmoline nor ArmedBear were exactly clear that the "smaller, lighter" gun was to be a bolt action.

Given the recoil involved I'm not sure I would want a rifle much lighter than an 1895. It won't be possible to make a lever gun much smaller than an 1895 in 450 Marlin in any case.

 

[DeepSouth]

The only reason I bought a 450 was because the gun shop I went to didn't happen to have an 1895 45-70. I had never heard of a 450 but I was young and had a hole burning in my pocket. Now I am glad I got the 450 over the 45-70, it is one of my favorite guns.

The thing is so many people say that the .450 is pointless because of the 45-70, well the opposite is true the .450 does everything the 45-70 does, it just does it better IMO.

Sure ammo for the .450 is a little higher, so what, neither round was designed to take to the range and fire 200 rounds of in a day. The availability of 45-70 ammo isn't as good as most make it out to be, and the availability of .450 isn't as bad as most make it out to be, though it is harder to find than 45-70 ammo but it would be more available if the round gained popularity.

In short, I'm not overly concerned with the price or availability of ammo in a round that isn't a "target" round. I am concerned about the function and "ballistics" of the round, and in both areas the the .450 wins.

 

[waterhouse]

Given the recoil involved I'm not sure I would want a rifle much lighter than an 1895.

I'd agree (mine is 45/70 though) but I shoot mine a lot at the range and don't carry it very far.

If I were looking for a gun to carry around Alaska I might be willing to endure a little more recoil for the lighter carrying weight.

I do think the bolt action idea is interesting for the .450, and I'm glad someone brought it up. When I look at the Marlin lever guns chambered in it all I ever thought was "you know they make hot 45/70, right?"

I'm certainly no expert on the concept of the belted cartridge. Can anyone point me to some tutorial or diagram of why they work for bolt actions and the 45/70 doesn't?

 

[Cosmoline]

but according to Cartridges of the World, both cartridges have identical 2.55" COL, so I don't see how that can happen.

Look at them side by side and you'll see it in an instant--the RIM! That big honking ledge around the base of the .45-70 mandates a tube of no less diameter and forces the receiver to be just as wide in every dimension. All that extra space adds up. The rim also makes chambering in a bolt action, while not impossible, quite difficult. The action must be expanded outwards at the base to hold them. Siamese Mausers and modified Enfields have been used to accomplish this, but not without difficulty. A .450 Marlin can actually fit in something as small as a Winchester 94. The result is incredibly handy. Faster in the hand than the beefier Marlin 1985 and leaner in profile.

I don't know how compact you could make a bolt gun and still handle 3+1 capacity, but I'll wager it could be quite compact. Recoil is stout, but not intolerable. Here's my custom 94 with the most potent of .450 loads:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oJCsX1RCh0

As you can see, it doesn't exactly bowl me over. I would say it's on par with a stout .45-70 out of the Guide Gun, but not as bad as the Ruger No. 1 or a Mossy 500 slug gun firing Brenneke magnums.

 

[natman]

Look at them side by side and you'll see it in an instant--the RIM! That big honking ledge around the base of the .45-70 mandates a tube of no less diameter and forces the receiver to be just as wide in every dimension. All that extra space adds up. The rim also makes chambering in a bolt action, while not impossible, quite difficult. The action must be expanded outwards at the base to hold them. Siamese Mausers and modified Enfields have been used to accomplish this, but not without difficulty. A .450 Marlin can actually fit in something as small as a Winchester 94. The result is incredibly handy. Faster in the hand than the beefier Marlin 1985 and leaner in profile.

I don't know how compact you could make a bolt gun and still handle 3+1 capacity, but I'll wager it could be quite compact. Recoil is stout, but not intolerable.

Thanks for the reply, your point is much clearer now. The difference between the rim diameter on a 45-70 and a 450 Marlin is less than 8 hundredths of an inch (.08"), but it would appear that that is a roadblock to fitting it into a Winchester 94. I've never really noticed that much difference in the handling of an 1895 and a 94, but I'll take your word on it.

As I've already stated, the 450 Marlin is much more suitable for bolt actions. When you were talking about "smaller, lighter guns" I had in mind a really light bolt action such as a Remington Ti. 450 Marlin recoil in a ~6 lb rifle would be "interesting".

 

[Rob96]

When I was looking for my Guide Gun I knew specifically I wanted a 45/70 becasue I would be reloading for it. A lot more brass available plus manufactured ammo. I am pretty confident if I do my part the 405 JSP loaded on top of 50grs. of H322 will do its.