454 Casull/ H110 problem

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shark40sw

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I've been reloading for over 15 years but have just started loading for the 454. In fact this was my very first set of loads for said caliber. Not what I would call a great beginging.
Useing once fired brass I loaded 27.5 grains of H110 under a 250 grain FML bullet. Every manual that had a listing for this load showed it as being at the minimum for this combination of componants. The only problem is, when I went to try it I was rewarded with a mute little pop noice instead of the usual nice boom.
Upon checking the barrel and finding the bullet lodged in between the cylinder and barrel mouth my first thought was that I had no powder in the case. A piece of wood dowel, a plastic mallet, and more than a few interesting words later I had an un-jammed gun that was no worse for wear. I also discovered that the case did in fact contain powder, exactly what it should have, it just didn't get ignited by the primer.
Another shooter there that day who ownes exactly the same revolver said he had exactly the same problem. The only difference between us was I was using PMC small rifle primers and he was using CCI small rifle. He said that he switched to the magnum small rifle as he believed the standard wasn't hot enough to reliably initiate the H110. Yet every manual or on line source lists a standard small rifle.
My questions are, 1) are PMC primers just not hot enough and I should use another brand ? And if this is the case then why would he get the same results from a CCI?
2) would going to the magnum primers solve this or should I just give up on this load and go to a different powder? And if I go to a magnum primer is it going to cause some sort of problem?

PS
the can of H110 was about a year old but was stored properly with a dozen other types that have all been used without a hic-up and the H110 was the only one still factory sealed and had never even been opened.
 
I have shot 22 gr H110 with 250 gr and it will jam the gun and make trouble if the roll crimp is not there.

Get a good roll crimp, and 22 gr H110 works great.

24 gr kicks like a mule in my old Uberti 1873 Colt clone.
 
Clark is right re roll crimp.

However I am very disillusioned with H-110 I have to say - it is so darned fine it is not a powder I find easy to measure volumetrically - only a ''per load'' weighing is working for me, to be accurate.

I shall finish what I have and probably finish up using a VV powder despite cost. If I can work a load with N-110 I will, if it is slow enough.
 
I use H110 in my .44mag (and .357mag) and love it. I have never had a problem with the powder, but I use CCI Large Pistol Magnum primers. Magnum primers are strongly recommended with slow burning powders such as H110.
 
I had a similar experience with H110. I was loading the minimum recommended load of 39.0 grains of H110 behind a 385gr JHP with CCI Large Rifle primers for my S&W 500. While I didn't stick one in the barrel, I got wildly varying chrono readings with this load. I tried a stronger crimp and it seemed to help a bit. What really "fixed" it was to bump the charge up a bit to 40.5 grains (42.5 is the max recommended). The readings became quite consistent (I can't remember the numbers off the top of my head but they were what I was expecting).

I read somewhere that you are not supposed to reduce charges of H110 below the recommended minimum. Perhaps we were seeing similar problems by being at the minimum.
 
I loaded 27.5 grains of H110 under a 250 grain FML bullet.

I always check the powder manufacturers load data as a basis for choosing my start load as they are generally more conservative in the charge weights than most other data sources. Hodgdon says a load of 36.0grs of H110 is the maximum for the .454 Casul using a 260gr jacketed FP. For H110 and its Winchester 296 counter part there's usually a warning to reduce no more than 3% off the maximum for a start load as squibs could be a result along with a note regarding heavy crimp. This means a start load should be no less than 35 grs for a 10gr heavier bullet than what you are loading.

Over the years I've run into several handloaders who have had squibs using H110 or W296 and lightening their loads in .357 mag and .44 mag below the 3% from max reduction. They usually give you a puzzled look :confused: when you tell them that their load's too light.

If you want to load light loads use a powder that isn't as volume sensitive as H110 or W296. For light loads Tight Group would be a good one as it isn't position sensitive though there's lots of room left in the case. With Tight Group there's a real chance that a double charge will go undetected so extra care needs to be taken to avoid double charges.
 
The crimp was tight. So much so it took quite a few good hard wacks with the hammer to pull them apart.
I think I'm going to go with a different powder with the 454 though. The one bad experience is enough to make me uncomfortable with trying it again.
I had loaded some 45 LC at +P levels with the same powder but didn't try them because I realized after the fact that they were loaded in 454 cases and was worried about case volume problems so I went with the 27.5 that was shown in two different manuals.
I've got 250 grain Montana Gold and 300 grain XTPs to load with. I'm open to suggestions on powder sellection though. I load for everything from 9mm to 454 so finding a use for the H110 isn't a problem. Finding something good for the 454 is.
Thanks for the information.:evil:
 
THE R-P 7 1/2 SMALL RIFLE MAGNUM PRIMER IS THE STANDARD FOR ALL 454CASULL HANDLOADS.

It is the only primer ever used by FA when they were loading and selling 454CASULL ammunition.
The CCI 450 primer is just about as good, and as good in 353 loads, but I would recommend nothing but the R-P 7 1/2 primer in the 454.
 
I just got an e-mail showing me the load data from F.A. and they specificly state to use only magnum primers and list the minimum H110 load as being 30 grains. Yet my manual lists standard small rifle and a base load of 27.5. Considering the results I would have to say use the F.A. information
They also state that 45L.C. should not be used, only 454, as the inside measurments are different. I haven't seen this information anywhere else and have been useing my 45LC dies untill now.
Guess it's time to do some more research and buy another manual or two for cross referance purposes.:banghead:
 
I would have to agree with the idea that the load was just too light, regardless of what the manual said. H110 is very sensitive to light loads. I use H110 exclusively in my Ruger SRH. 30.5 grains and 300 grain self cast LFN bullet and accuracy is excellent.
 
LIL' Gun! Switch to LIL' Gun powder and you will never go back to H110. Works great in .460 S&W. I had the same problem with H110. What hawkeye1 said is completely true, in my experience.
 
Well, here is what works for me:

An inside expander that makes the case put a "death-grip" on the bullet, even without a crimp.

Redding's Pro-Crimp die for the crimp, crimped to the point that the little ridges in the knurling of the bullet imprint on the inside of the case mouth when crimped.

Did I mention that I never chamfer the inside of the case mouth? Nor do I deburr the outside; I just let the dies knock off the extra metal. Deburring and chamfering weaken the crimp.

Winchester Small Rifle Primers. They are hotter because they are made to function with ball powders.
 
My Casull brass, headstamped by Casull only takes a Small Rifle primer. My WW brass is identical, small rifle only.

I cast the 260GCTC mold Lyman made for Casull and I stuff it with 32g H110.

Consistently @ 1875fps over a chrono.

Full length case resizing grips the bullet, add a nice roll crimp and you'll be good to go.
 
IMO, 110 is a bear to light off if there's much extra room in the case. I read somewhere in one of my manuals that you should always use magnum primers with 110/296. I know the manufacturers manuals say to never reduce the loads more than 3%.
 
Whats an FML bullet, do you mean FMJ ? My win and hodgon data uses a winchester small rifle primer with h110 and 296. I would change powders, dont use 296. Make sure your expander is the correct size. When using H110 and ww296, use the exact components/weights listed in the reloading data.
 
I have used LIL'GUN for a few years, but I now think that H110 smells better when burning.

Right now I am using LIL'GUN for 357 mag.
I used to use H110 for that.

I have always used H110 for 44 mag and 45 Colt.

H110 can really get things going in .223 and 7.62x39mm.
 
I've had the same problem with H-110 in my 454 puma rifle. In my case the bullet did not even leave the brass for 4 out of 10 test loads. I've also read about using the small rifle magnum primers, but my understanding is that they are a CCI "exclusive" due to the fact that CCI standard small rifle primers are not as hot than most other brands.

I'd have to agree with others that Lil'Gun is a great powder in the 454. I've had very good results with it and it allegedly will give similar velocities to H-110 with less pressure. Velocities seem comparable based on the shoulder-meter and point of impact, but I can't verify pressure, of course.
 
So, Lil'Gun gives lower pressures than H110 with similar velocities?

Do you have any favorite loads with the cast 300 grain bullet?
 
Nor do I deburr the outside; I just let the dies knock off the extra metal.
:banghead:

Just a touch is all you need. We are not sharpening the case here and you don't want those brass shavings in your loads. Trim your brass, lightly chamfer and deburr, and you will get the good consistent crimp you are looking for
 
Hawkeye1...Sorry, but I haven't loaded 300 grainers. I've been using the 240 grain XTP mags. But Hodgdon lists the following info on their website.

H110 - 28.5gr 1618fps 44,200 CUP 30.0gr 1716fps 53,700 CUP
Lil'Gun - 29.0gr 1666fps 39,800 CUP 31.0gr 1746fps 45,000 CUP

This is for the 300gr FA Jacketed Flatpoint.

This is pistol data by the way. Velocities would be somewhat higher from a rifle. I have a Lee 300gr .45 RNFP mold that I will try if I can ever get my casting gear out. Been busy lately!
 
I use 28gr. of Alliant 2400 under the Hornady 300 Magnum XTP. Nice consistant load.

Ditto that.

My starting load of 25.5gr of 2400 and 300gr. XTP/M gave MV of 1600fps with an SD of 16.9.

However at the start load the primers were almost flat (Winchester small rifle) so I'm hestant to go any higher.
 
Hazzard, thanks for the data. It seems like the data for cast bullets is kind of scarce. I will keep looking for some data and post it if I find anything. In the meantime, sounds like you have the same 300 grain Lee that I am currently using. 30.5 grains H110 with Lee Liquid Alox. Have not run them through a chrono yet, but accuracy is great.
If you get your casting gear up and running, let me know how your results are.
 
I have shot H 110 in my Freedom Arms pistol (Casull) for ever and had no problems. Those fine ball powders really like it when the case is very close to full or even slightly compressed. For mine 34 gr. fills the cas completely under a 250 gr XTP @ 2050 fps. I've heard horror stories about blown cyliders when trying to load "light" loads with ball powders in high capacity cases... sounds like with unburnes powder in yours you're not too far away from one of those situations. If you want a load under max, go with a different powder... Maybe H 4227.
 
rem 6 1/2 primers in casull.454

It seems as though the standard for reloading the 454 is rem 7 1/2 primer ,I have a quantiity of rem 6 1/2 (small rifle) primers and am about to attempt my first 454 reloads . Is there a problem using the 6 1/2 primers ?
 
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