454 or 45 Colt?

[skidder]

I recently purchased a 454/45 Colt Super Redhawk.
I'm a veteran reloader of 20 years, but new to reloading these two calibers.

I'm sure this question has been asked A LOT, but the wonderful internet is full of conflicting information.

My research shows about 50/50... Half say you can use 454 dies to load 45 Colt, and vice-versa.

Well, which is it?? I'm not loaded with cash so "both" is not an option right now. so if possible, which one should I buy to do both (the price is the same).

Thanks in advance!!

 

[WinchesterAA]

In either case, reloading both cartridges with the same dies is going to require some fidgeting which will change the settings and require adjustments every time you want to change cartridges. Primarily with flaring, bullet seating, and crimping.

That being said, I believe you'd be able flare, seat, and crimp 454 with the 45 colt dies, but you'd only be able to partially resize 454 brass, which is what starline recommends for their brass, but they also state that 454 and 45 colt brass -- new -- should be full length sized before loading.

PITA, if you ask me. Just load a bunch of 454 and buy the 45 colt dies when you run out of SRP

 

[skidder]

Thanks Winchester

When loading 357/38 I just use the washer (spacer ring) they provide with the set. Simple and requires no adjustment. Why can't they do that with these two calibers?

 

[WinchesterAA]

Should be fine with a spacer, all other things being equal.

 

[gamestalker]

I've been down this road before with dedicated 10mm dies and .40 cal., also same thing with old 38 spcl. dies and .357.

The problem is that dedicated .454 dies may be too deep to bell or crimp 45 LC brass, but will resize both completely.

And 45 LC dies may not FL size .454 brass, crimping and belling won't be a problem though.

Isn't the .454 much like .357/ 38 and 44/44 mag die sets, in that RCBS, Lee or other make a die set that will work for both?

GS

 

[moxie]

Call your die maker's customer service. They will likely help you.

 

[Kosh75287]

I think MOXIE has the best answer. If you don't get a clear answer from them, I'd likely go with .454 Casull dies, and buy a separate crimping die for .45 Colt. Incidentally, I found out (under circumstances I'll not go into) that a Forster Taper Crimp Die for .45 ACP works well on .45 Colt if screwed out an appropriate distance. I related this to a .454 Casull owner, who abashedly admitted to a similar discovery with a similar die, when reloading .454.

You may also find that you can locate whatever you need in addition to the .454 Casull Dies at gun shows. Inevitably, someone will be selling dies for a cartridge fitting a gun that they ONCE owned.

 

[Lost Sheep]

Thanks for asking our advice

One thing not mentioned is that your press may make a difference.

How long are the threads on the press and the threads on the dies and how close does the ram get to the underside of the press' threads?

Bullet seating is not likely to be a problem, as the seating stem is adjustable as well as the die (if you seat as a single stop, that is, not crimping at the same time).

Likewise, expanding the case mouth is unlikely to be much of a problem because the expander stem can be adjusted up and down. That is, unless a 454 stem is too short to reach or a 45 Colt stem is so long you cannot adjust it out far enough. (After the die adjustment in the press is brought to the end of its travel)

Crimping the shorter cases with a die intended for the longer case may be problematic if the crimping shoulder is so high up inside the die you cannot get the shorter case mouth to reach it, either because the die is too long or the threads of the press will not let you adjust the die down far enough.

Very likely you will have no problem, but I don't think anyone can give you 100% guarantee. Probably the best you can get is a promise of refund if they don't work for both.

Dies marked (or guaranteed by the manufacturer) to do both, are certain to have the die body length and stem length to handle both. But it still does not take into account the dimensions of your press.

Note that dies for .460 S&W have the same possibility of loading for 454 Casull, 45 Colt and 45 Schofield. But I have heard that dies long enough to crimp the .460 cannot accommodate the 45 Colt or Schofield. But I cannot swear to it myself and have no indication if 454 Casull can be accommodated by the 460 dies.

It's a maze.

Lost Sheep

edit sizing/depriming may have a question. All the action of sizing is at the die's mouth and cartridge length is not an issue there. But the case mouth of a longer case may bump up against the inside of the die or the depriming stem.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

The reason why you are getting conflicted answers as to 454 Casull dies also loading 45 Colt ammo, some do and some don't. I have a set of Lee .357 Magnum dies that load both the .357 Magnum and .38 Special and another set of Lee .357 Magnum dies that load only the .357 Magnum.

Like said above, call the manufacturer of the dies you want to buy and be sure the dies will do what you need to get done before you buy.

 

[243winxb]

Lee Interchangeable dies

Interchangeable dies
Posted by on 19 October 2011 03:01 PM
Frequently, dies from one caliber may be used to load other calibers. Due to the locations of crimping shoulders, the operation may only work for dies of the shorter caliber to the longer. You may notice a label depicting the shorter die in your set for the longer version of the cartridge, we do this to reduce costs.

Even though some dies are interchangable, in many cases, different shellholders are necessary. You can see a complete list of shellholders under "Case Preparation" then "Shellholders and Calibers".



32 H&R Mag - 327 Federal Mag
45 Colt - 454 Casull *
44 Special - 44 Magnum
38 Special - 357 Magnum
30-30 Winchester - 30 Remington
357 Magnum - 357 Maximum
38 Super - 9mm Largo
44 Russian - 44 Special
40 Smith & Wesson - 10mm - 41 Action Express
32 Smith & Wesson - 32 S&W Long - 32 H&R Magnum **

*The 45 Colt expander die will also work for the 454 Casull by backing the die out approximately two turns to compensate for the difference in case length.

**Our dies allow the use of .308 bullets in the 32 H&R Magnum. The other bullet diameter commonly used is .311 and that is the expander that comes with the set. To use .308 bullets, it is necessary to purchase an additional expander and turn it down to .308. This can be done using a drill press and emery cloth or if you buy the additional expander from the factory, we will do it for $10.00.

Info from Lee at http://leeprecision.net/support/index.php?/Knowledgebase/Article/View/129/0/interchangeable-dies

 

[Jesse Heywood]

A few years ago I was given some brass and was asked if I could do anything with it. Since I never shy away from a challenge, I was able to make .455 Colt Eley, cartridge length of .886. With my RCBS die, I shortened the crimp die body, chucking it in the lathe and taking 1/2" off the die.

If you are going to use a die made for 45 colt to crimp 45 Schofield, 45 AR or 45 Short Colt you will probably have to cut down the die. Some use a file, a grinder or a lathe.

 

[Lost Sheep]

A few years ago I was given some brass and was asked if I could do anything with it. Since I never shy away from a challenge, I was able to make .455 Colt Eley, cartridge length of .886. With my RCBS die, I shortened the crimp die body, chucking it in the lathe and taking 1/2" off the die.

If you are going to use a die made for 45 colt to crimp 45 Schofield, 45 AR or 45 Short Colt you will probably have to cut down the die. Some use a file, a grinder or a lathe.

And be careful that you do not take off too much or it will be unusable for the longer cartrdige which it originally fit.

edit: I am being overly cautious (pessimistic?). Very likely the dimensions of your press, the thread length of your press and die will allow full functionality and adjustment.

 

[FROGO207]

I would buy the 45 Colt set and buy a separate 454 sizing die as well. Then you do not have to remember to screw the die out as Lee suggests. The shorter seating and crimping dies will work for both by adjusting for brass length. With the Redhawk the barrel dia will be the same as 45 ACP, some of the older 45 Colts had a larger size barrel so needed larger dia sets of dies to load accurate lead ammo.

 

[RPRNY]

I use a Hornady die set for the 454 to load both. It's 1/10" difference. No problems from my end.

 

[Nathan Detroit]

At one time, .45 Colt dies would not work reliably at sizing .454 brass because the chambers on the .454s were very tight and the .45 Colt dies would not size them down enough. That may have changed once Ruger came out with their SRH.

 

[Rule3]

243winxb^^^

above has the correct info for LEE dies. I have a SW 460 MAG which will shoot all those 45 colt 454 and 460..

45 Colt dies which I had for a 45 Colt will Load the 454.

 

[highlander 5]

I load 454,45 Colt and 45 Schofield I have a set of RCBS cowboy dies to load for my Schofield loads. I load the others with Redding and Dillon dies that state on their boxes 45 Colt/454 Casull.