458 socom vs 450 bushmaster anyone own one???

[mcb]

@mcb , can you provide more details on that load? Does it cycle the bolt? What powder and charge weight?

It looks like your upper has a 20" barrel. I cut mine down from 20" to 12" and might need to open up the gas port to get more gas heading rearward for subsonic loads. Perhaps an adjustable gas block is in my future. I shot some 360gr gas checked bullets this weekend using 15.0gr of Trailboss which results in a MV of around 1,100 fps but not enough gas to cycle the bolt. That load supposedly generates about 36,700 psi but with such a short dwell time there's not enough gas going down the gas tube.

Without getting this thread too far off topic I hope you don't mind if I post a link to another forum where I created a thread with a fairly detailed write-up of the workup for my subsonic 450BM load: http://450bushmaster.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=15365

 

[MCMXI]

@mcb, I don't mind at all! Thanks very much.

 

[marksman13]

I've been running a 458 SOCOM for a little over a year now. I use it mostly for shooting pigs at night and I'm completely satisfied. I wanted a subsonic load since I shoot my SOCOM suppressed. I've never trusted any cartridge for taking medium sized game with a subsonic bullet, but the 500 grain Maker pre-segmented bullet is absolutely nasty. We routinely get exit wounds out to 100 yards even with fairly large pigs.

 

[CraigC]

Handgun hunters do it all the time. A good 300gr LBT at 1050fps will do the job on deer/hogs. No need for a 500gr.

 

[marksman13]

Handgun hunters do it all the time. A good 300gr LBT at 1050fps will do the job on deer/hogs. No need for a 500gr.

Good for them. I've seen too many animals, pigs especially, get away when shot with subsonic 300 BLK. These 500 grain Maker bullets have not failed to exit a pig yet for me. They leave heavy blood trails and pigs expire quickly, so I'll just keep shooting them.

 

[marksman13]

Hard to imagine much better performance out of a subsonic round than this.

 

[CraigC]

Good for them. I've seen too many animals, pigs especially, get away when shot with subsonic 300 BLK. These 500 grain Maker bullets have not failed to exit a pig yet for me. They leave heavy blood trails and pigs expire quickly, so I'll just keep shooting them.

Apples and oranges. People often use the wrong bullets for subsonic .300's. A .308" bullet has to expand to be effective, a .458" bullet doesn't. I'm sure those 500's are effective but you don't need all that for deer/hogs. As I said, a 300gr LBT will do the job with boring regularity.

 

[marksman13]

Apples and oranges. People often use the wrong bullets for subsonic .300's. A .308" bullet has to expand to be effective, a .458" bullet doesn't. I'm sure those 500's are effective but you don't need all that for deer/hogs. As I said, a 300gr LBT will do the job with boring regularity.

Honestly, I don't run these Maker bullets because of their weight. I like them because they expand so well at 1059 FPS. I've never used anything like them before. It's launching a 500 grain, three blade broadhead at 1050 FPS.

 

[mcb]

Hard to imagine much better performance out of a subsonic round than this.

NIce setup. What range was that target shot at?

 

[CraigC]

Just trying to offer an alternative. Rifle hunters are often out of the loop when it comes to subsonics but handgun hunters live it every day. One doesn't need a $1.50 expanding .458 bullet to kill deer and hogs. A cast LBT will do just as well at less expense and recoil along with greater availability.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/740208

 

[marksman13]

NIce setup. What range was that target shot at?

That was 75 yards. I zero those subs at 75 yards and I'm good out to 175 yards with the Leupold Ballistic Firedot reticle.

 

[Stormie]

I cant decide if I should go with a Wilson .458 Socom upper or a .450 Bushmaster (Bushmaster) upper to go with my last completed lower AR-15. I am wanting to go with a big bore for the last one.

I have three in 5.56, one in 300 Blackout, one AR-10 308. I am wanting to hunt with it and have some fun shooting a big bore AR. I also reload my own ammo.

Anyone own one or have any comments or like to share anything???

I love my CMMG 458 Socom. It is built on a slightly modified 308 AR-10 platform rather than an AR-15. Both the upper and the bolt and bolt carrier a much heavier Duty then any of the 458 that are found on others

 

[Stormie]

I would likely go 450 bushmaster... only because here in Ohio I can hunt deer with the bushmaster legally... not the socom or raptor although for defense from bigfoot the bushmaster and the heavier bullets would be nice

Is Ohio's stupid what is the difference between a 458 and 450 Bushmaster in a 50 Beowulf or even a 45 Raptor?

 

[mcb]

Is Ohio's stupid what is the difference between a 458 and 450 Bushmaster in a 50 Beowulf or even a 45 Raptor?

The only one of those four cartridges that is illegal for deer hunting in Ohio is 458 SOCOM. Give it time they will get there. Four years ago you couldn't use a rifle at all. Ohio was a slug-gun/handgun only state during modern firearm season. The first two or three years they allowed rifles they had a specific list of cartridges that where allowed and only those cartridges. Mostly revolver cartridges and the old 45-70 45-90 etc black powder cartridges. For this past season they opened it up to all straight wall pistol or rifle cartridges. Give them time they will get to bottle neck cartridges eventually.

 

[MCMXI]

Out of interest, has anyone shot anything at subsonic velocities using Remington's .458 405gr JSP bullet? I'm on the verge of ordering the Lee sizing dies that mcb mentioned in an earlier post along with a couple of pounds of VV Tin Star since I have about 800 of those bullets and would like to have a subsonic load worked up that will reliably cycle the bolt and potentially drop a bear if needed.

 

[Stormie]

The only one of those four cartridges that is illegal for deer hunting in Ohio is 458 SOCOM. Give it time they will get there. Four years ago you couldn't use a rifle at all. Ohio was a slug-gun/handgun only state during modern firearm season. The first two or three years they allowed rifles they had a specific list of cartridges that where allowed and only those cartridges. Mostly revolver cartridges and the old 45-70 45-90 etc black powder cartridges. For this past season they opened it up to all straight wall pistol or rifle cartridges. Give them time they will get to bottle neck cartridges eventually.

Thanks for the explanation sir. it seems really stupid to me really stupid to me their law like a deer knows if it's being hit with a straight wall cartridge or a bottleneck, and we pay out good tax money to these legislators to come up with stupidity like that.sheeesh.

 

[mcb]

Out of interest, has anyone shot anything at subsonic velocities using Remington's .458 405gr JSP bullet? I'm on the verge of ordering the Lee sizing dies that mcb mentioned in an earlier post along with a couple of pounds of VV Tin Star since I have about 800 of those bullets and would like to have a subsonic load worked up that will reliably cycle the bolt and potentially drop a bear if needed.

The bullet should expand at those velocities but I have not shot a critter with one of my subsonic loads yet. The bullets I dug our of a clay back stop had opened up nicely but that is far from scientific. If your going to use a 450 BM on bear I would at minimum use factory ammo. Hand loaded Barnes 275gr bullet or a 300gr HP like an Hornady XTP or Speer Deep Curl would be more appropriate for bear IMHO. Hodgdon has now published good data for 450 BM. That subsonic load was fun to play with but would not be my first choice for bear. Also that subsonic load will most likely not reliably cycle an AR without a suppressor mounted unless your going to start opening up gas ports.

Thanks for the explanation sir. it seems really stupid to me really stupid to me their law like a deer knows if it's being hit with a straight wall cartridge or a bottleneck, and we pay out good tax money to these legislators to come up with stupidity like that.sheeesh.

Yeah its sort if silly. I believe the original reason rifles where not allowed was due to how flat the west half of the state is. Lots of small family farms around small far flung villages made for a lot of wide open flat terrain but just enough population to make a modern bottle neck rifle cartridge a hazard, at least in the eyes of those that make the laws, hence the slug only requirement for many decades. IIRC it wasn't until sometime in the late 1990's that handguns where legal for deer hunting.

 

[MCMXI]

If your going to use a 450 BM on bear I would at minimum use factory ammo. Hand loaded Barnes 275gr bullet or a 300gr HP like an Hornady XTP or Speer Deep Curl would be more appropriate for bear IMHO. Hodgdon has now published good data for 450 BM. That subsonic load was fun to play with but would not be my first choice for bear. Also that subsonic load will most likely not reliably cycle an AR without a suppressor mounted unless your going to start opening up gas ports.

I should add that I don't intend to hunt bear but I would like a load that I could carry in my .450 BM that would be effective and quiet if I decide to hike with a rifle. I'll only shoot subsonic loads with a suppressor attached, so as long as the bolt cycles in that configuration I'm good. Currently I always carry a Redhawk (4.2") chambered in .45 Colt and loaded with 360gr hardcast bullets moving at 1,150 fps when hiking/hunting but a rifle load would give me options.

 

[Lennyjoe]

With Ohio opening up to any straight walled cartridge, that drove me to building a .50 Beowulf. Thinking about building another in .450 Bushmaster so I can run a side by side comparison. Ah the joys of AR options along with reloading.

 

[Demi-human]

After much thought over the good points in this and other threads I have made my decision for the four fifty Bushmaster. A Radical Firearms upper from Optics Planet will arrive sometime next week. The price they offered was too good to pass up. I could not get all the parts that cheap to assemble them.

My primary use would be to spot and stalk soda bottles and riddle paper with holes. I already use many fourty five caliber pistol bullets so using more is not a huge deal.

I feel the speeds attained with the Bushmaster are a good match for pistol bullets, for the shots I would take, at the range they will make impact with what I could possibly hunt with it.

I could have spent a lot more for an upper. But since this is not a whole gun it does not count toward this years firearms purchases. Thus I am still eyeing a new shotgun.

 

[tallpaul]

Wouldn't the 45 Raptor be legal with the recent changes to Ohio rifle laws? I believe the law just says straight wall cartridges using bullets between .357 and .500 inches in diameter. Not that I really want to pull the trigger on the 45 Raptor but I think it would be legal if you like abusing your shoulder.

I assume it will...