458 win mag Stevens/savage

[ScrapMetalSlug]

I haven't posted in a while, but I recently got this new gun in a trade. It is a 458 Winchester magnum, which looks to be on a rebarreled Stevens action. The guy I got it from said he used to take it out to Idaho to hunt bear. It also has a shepherd scope, which I have never heard of and do not know much about. I have no experience with big bore safari calibers.

A few questions:
Will the savage/Stevens action hold up with a 458 mag?

How much would you say the gun is worth?

If you stumbled across a 458 win mag in a trade, what would you do with it? I can't imagine it is much fun to shoot and most likely pretty brutal in a fairly light rifle. Would it be silly to use this as an elk gun? The gun also came with two 20 round boxes of factory ammo.

Any info is appreciated.

 

[ScrapMetalSlug]

Here's some pics

 

[ScrapMetalSlug]

A few more

 

[eldon519]

I have contemplated getting a .458 before. I reload so, I think it would be fun to tinker with. As far as the action, .458 should not stress the action in terms of pressure anymore than a 7mm Rem Mag, .300 win mag, .338 win mag, etc. Pressure is about the same, and they are all based on the same case. The recoil might beat the gun up though, especially if the stock is cheap or flimsy. A lot of the nicer guns for safari calibers have double recoil lugs to spread out the force and protect the wood/screws. If it is not rigid enough, it could also be hard on the magazine depending on construction. I can only imagine it would hammer an elk although it is overkill and perhaps not as flat shooting as some options. There are some lighter bullets from Barnes (around 250-300 IIRC) that might get a bit more velocity and less recoil for elk, moose, or bear.

 

[Llama Bob]

I would say the .458 Win Mag has a very limited application as a stopping rifle for African (and in some cases Asian) dangerous game. On that front it's a direct competitor to .450 NE and all the similar double rifle cartridges stemming from the British ban of .45 caliber. The advantage of .458WM over those calibers is that it can be chambered in cheap bolt actions. The downside they all have is that they're really just too much rifle when you get down to it - .404 Jeffery has a lot less recoil and has more than proven itself in the PH and elephant control roles.

In North America, the .375 H&H is more than enough for anything and I wouldn't go bigger in a bolt action.

If I stumbled across that rifle, I probably wouldn't be very eager to shoot or keep it - not a cartridge I like, not an action I like, no real useful role I can see.

I have no idea if it will hold up long term. I've heard of Stevens conversions, but never seen one. My guess is the stock would be the first thing to let go. That's NOT fun when it happens - stocks are way cheaper than dentists and reconstructive surgeons.

 

[browningguy]

I've hunted deer, pigs and even coyotes with my .458, I don't know if its overkill but it sure kills them, and I predict it would work pretty well on elk. I think the recoil isn't all that bad with my 350 gr. handloads. The Stevens action should hold up.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

The weak point is the stock -- the .458 will hammer the stock badly.

Frankly, I would see if I could trade it for a .375 H&H or a .338 Win, if you want a "big" rifle for elk and larger game.

 

[ScrapMetalSlug]

I guess I was kind of just looking for a reason to keep it, maybe I will change my mind after I shoot it. I know this is overkill for most anything outside Africa, but how would this fare for a grizzly gun in Alaska?

Also seeing as the limited role, do you think it would be worth the effort to rebarrel in a more useful and reasonable caliber? I have no Africa trip plans anytime soon.

Any feedback on the shepherd scope? I've read some about them online, but this is the first one I have seen or owned.

Thanks for the replies.

 

[eldon519]

Not to be rude, but you keep asking how it will fair against this and that. It is literally an elephant gun. Do you really need to ask if it will kill elk or bear?

 

[ants]

Mine fares REALLY well against pumpkins. I won't trade it for nuthin' !!!

And with all due respect to pumpkins and their right to roam free,
they are a LOT cheaper than going to Africa to look for an elephant.

Now that you own it, go find a neighborhood Holloween punkin patch and buy some.


Handloaders: You can use 45-70 load data for reduced loads.
Reduced recoil, cheaper, and it still blows the pumpkin to smithereens.
Orange mushroom cloud! Owning a 458 Win Mag is definitely worth it.
All the naysayers just don't know that it is unnecessary under the
Second Amendment to actually use a gun for hunting purpose.
It also protects your right to make punkin pie airborne.

 

[LoonWulf]

Thats likely and ER. Shaw barrel kit, i remember seeing those on midway and elsewhere and going....ouch...why...never mind i want it. The .458 is the largest, stopping cartridge, that will fit in a savage 110 action as far as i know.

Never did get one, but i think its a nifty idea.

Value wise i dont think it really raises the value to have it in .458. Thats an old model pre-accutrigger, not sure what those go fore these days. Id probably say 300-350.

Personally id probably keep it, its damned neat. Put it in a boyds laminate stock, which will add some weight. Go to a lower power variable, with good eye relief. If you hand load, download to hot 45-70 performance, and youll have a hell of a rig. You can run the heavy loads if you really want to, but they probably arent necessary for anything.

 

[jmr40]

Not something I'd be interested in keeping even if someone gave it to me. If I were inclined to keep it I'd replace the scope with something like a 1-4X20 or a fixed 1,5 or 2.5X scope of high quality. A cheaper scope won't stand up to 458 recoil and you don't need more than 3X or so on a 458.

There is nothing in the lower 48 that really NEEDS anything larger than 30-06. In fact there isn't anything in North America that requires anything larger than 30-06, some people choose to use larger guns on the larger brown bear in Alaska for added insurance. But if someone wants to use a larger gun then there is nothing at all wrong with that. Even on game as small as deer. If I were going bigger than 30-06 I'd go 375 mag, Unlike 458 it offers flat enough trajectory for those 300+ yard shots and while recoil is considerably more than 30-06, it is still manageable by most shooters..

The 458 can be down loaded to mid level 45-70 loads which will help reduce recoil. But it is still going to be stout in a lightweight rifle.

 

[Orcon]

I don't see any benefit in chambering a dangerous game cartridge in a rifle that is ill-suited for the task. Assuming it is wearing the factory stock, the scope is probably worth more than the rifle. If I had something like that come into my possession, I'd replace the stock and rebarrel it with a smaller cartridge with the same bolt face.

Honestly, those Stevens rifles in factory configuration are worth little more that the action itself. You'll see some folks list them online for 300-400 but I wouldn't pay more than 200 for one.

 

[RevJim]

I've had a few 458s through my younger years, one at a time. A Ruger #1, a Mark X Alaskan, and a Whitworth Express. I got cracked stocks on both the ruger and the Mark X. The Whitworth needed the action tweaked, otherwise they were all accurate. I had in mind "some day shooting cape buffalo" and almost had the opportunity once. I handloaded the barnes 450s and tried a few reduced loads, they were all fun. I used the Speer 400 FN in reduced loads, just for fun. I never killed anything with them. I finally decided to sell that last one I had, the Whitworth for fear I would develop a bad flinch and ruin myself, ha. Actually, in your rifle, loaded down to older 45-70 specs ( a 400 to 500 cast around 1200fps or a 350 Speer around 1700fps or so) will be easy on you, on the rifle, and kill everything you turn it on, ha! I believe I can honestly say that particular rifle and scope set up just won't hold up to standard 458 winmags speeds...its the recoil, it will overwhelm the "current design", the action is strong enough, the extraction/feeding may get wonky on you. If you like the rifle, a new Savage barrel in any belted magnum, say 7mm mag is easily done. Good luck to you pard.

 

[Llama Bob]

There are some pretty good options for reduced loads in .458WM. Trail boss works from 1300 ft/s down. H4895 works from about 1400 ft/s up to basically full power.

https://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/H4895 Reduced Rifle Loads.pdf

 

[Walkalong]

AA 5744 is great for .45-70ish power loads in .458 Win Mag.

Trail Boss and a 350 Gr jacketed bullet gave me 1200ish FPS. It's super light in a heavy rifle.

 

[Gordon]

That Shepard scope, the way it is mounted to the rear is gonna smack you in the eye if you get a proper cheek weld, I promise !

 

[LoonWulf]

Was thinking the same.....wonder if that happend to the previous owner.....

 

[bfoosh006]

Shepard scopes are one of the first range finding reticle scopes... I still have one on my BAR.

http://www.shepherdscopes.com/dual-reticle-scope/

 

[ScrapMetalSlug]

Thanks for the replies. I think I am going to keep it and in 458, maybe get a long eye relief scope and a Boyd's stock.

If nothing else, this Gives me a good reason to finally get into reloading.

 

[69Precision]

If you think it's neat, keep it. As others have mentioned, you could load down to 45-70 performance. That said, it's way overkill and in most cases less than ideal. A 375 h&h will do all the grizzly killing needed, and has 308ish trajectory to 400 yards. I proved this last time I was in Alaska. Killed and 8ft grizzly drt. Quartering toward me at 150 yards. Entered where the shoulder meets the neck, exited the opposite hip. That's close to 7 ft of penetration. Later in the hunt I shot a wolf at 340 yards.

 

[Walkalong]

Since I can't see open sights very well any more, I put a Vortex 2x7 scope on mine. No problem with recoil. Probably heavier than this one though. The scope sits farther forward as well.

 

[natman]

I haven't posted in a while, but I recently got this new gun in a trade. It is a 458 Winchester magnum, which looks to be on a rebarreled Stevens action. The guy I got it from said he used to take it out to Idaho to hunt bear. It also has a shepherd scope, which I have never heard of and do not know much about. I have no experience with big bore safari calibers.

A few questions:
Will the savage/Stevens action hold up with a 458 mag?

How much would you say the gun is worth?

If you stumbled across a 458 win mag in a trade, what would you do with it?

The Savage action will handle it. I'm not so sure about the stock or the shooter.

As it sits, it's a project donor action. The rifle is too light for 458 and frankly the 458 is only really useful against dangerous game. This calls for a rifle with absolute reliability and the Savage doesn't provide it. I hunt deer with an early Savage Scout and it's fine for that, but I have no plans to hunt buffalo with it.

I'd rebarrel it to a more generally useful cartridge, say 7mm / 300 / 338 Mag. Sell the barrel to some other guy with more enthusiasm than sense.

I can't imagine it is much fun to shoot and most likely pretty brutal in a fairly light rifle. Would it be silly to use this as an elk gun?

It's certainly powerful enough, but the 458 has something of a rainbow trajectory and is a short range proposition. I suspect that by the time you get it sighted in you'll have lost the urge to hunt with it. I once hunted deer and pigs with a 458 using midrange 350 grain handloads just for grins, but in a rifle of more appropriate weight. If you want to make it an elk rifle, rebarrel it. It's easy to do, which is how this one came to be a 458.

The gun also came with two 20 round boxes of factory ammo.

Light 458s usually come with a box of 19 rounds and one empty case.

 

[Llama Bob]

I agree with natman about the unsuitability of the Savage action as a dangerous game action. I also agree that the .458 WM trajectory is never going to be good for medium to long range shots. You can make it better with light long nose bullets, but it's still bad. That seems like a big disadvantage for elk unless you're in heavy timber somewhere.

 

[gijoeman]

Loonwolf called it right! I have had two 458 win mag. I have taken deer loaded to 45-70 ballistics. And I love mine! Enjoy it and don't worry about what other people think you should do. The Stevens action is basically a Savage 110 and I have yet to hear of one failing under normal conditions. If the Savage action will not stand up, Shaw would not sell barrels chambered in the round!