45ACP 1911 problems

[LiveLife]

ATI 1911 ... Feeds factory 100%, no problem

berrys [HP] ... Bullets are getting hung up out of the mag, they basically point themselves straight up and jam into the top of the chamber.

I avoided SWC for this exact reason. I need to find a profile that will feed before I purchase a mold

I take it that it's a new ATI that is reliable with factory FMJ/RN ammunition.

Video below shows new ATI reliably feeding factory 230 gr TMJ (Speer copper plated RN bullet) and having occasional feeding issue with 200 gr SWC made from Lee mold (6:25 minute mark of video). If magazine is not the source of problem, I would look at the bullet as the source of the issue next, unless it's the pistol.

Note some feeding issues with 200 gr SWC reloads at 1.233" OAL with factory magazine was improved by loading shorter at 1.192" OAL. At 15:00 minute mark, video describes your exact problem of round stove piping and pointing straight up with conclusion that it may be the bullet nose profile as the source of the issue.

interesting thing is the same exact bullet (tumble lubed) fed reliably in my Sig 1911 with very tight chamber, in Citadel 1911 (Target model with tight chamber), in my friend's RIA 1911 and my BIL's Springfield Armory 1911 and none of the pistols were modified, not even the ramp polished.

Since your pistol reliably fed FMJ/RN profile bullets, have you considered using 200 gr RN or RNFP bullets?

Perhaps it's the pistol as not all 1911s feed HP/SWC bullets reliably. Perhaps the pistol needs a little bit more break-in. If it's pistol related cause, you can start a new thread in "Gunsmithing and Repairs" category and good folks there will fix you right up - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?forums/gunsmithing-and-repairs.16/

 

[guyfromohio]

Load your magazines and let them sit until the next time you shoot. When I came back to the 1911 game, I had the same issues. I found this tip and have done so religiously with all new mags. The proverbial 1911 "break-in" period is really a mag break-in period for the guns I have....(colt, DW, Wilson). Using older mags or ones that have been loaded for a while have made these guns 100% out of the box. Yes, your hard-fit guns likely do require some break-in, but mine don't fall into that category.

 

[BigMacMI]

Thank you!

 

[drband]

You might try a shorter COAL as @bds mentioned. With a swc bullet I’ve found that only having a sliver (.030) of shoulder above the case solved my feeding issues. While you are not using swc bullets, the feeding problem you describe seems very similar. Look at your seated bullet and note how much of the shoulder is above the case— if it is more than a thumbnail thickness, you might consider seating deeper until you find a good cycling depth. I think your rounds should function reliably once you get the seating depth figured out!
The bullet profile/ogive can be misleading you in terms of COAL. Of course, you will want to work up to your load if you shorten COAL very much.

 

[Walkalong]

Load your magazines and let them sit until the next time you shoot. When I came back to the 1911 game, I had the same issues. I found this tip and have done so religiously with all new mags. The proverbial 1911 "break-in" period is really a mag break-in period for the guns I have....(colt, DW, Wilson). Using older mags or ones that have been loaded for a while have made these guns 100% out of the box. Yes, your hard-fit guns likely do require some break-in, but mine don't fall into that category.

Never heard of such a thing.

 

[buck460XVR]

Load your magazines and let them sit until the next time you shoot. When I came back to the 1911 game, I had the same issues. I found this tip and have done so religiously with all new mags. The proverbial 1911 "break-in" period is really a mag break-in period for the guns I have....(colt, DW, Wilson). Using older mags or ones that have been loaded for a while have made these guns 100% out of the box. Yes, your hard-fit guns likely do require some break-in, but mine don't fall into that category.

Mag springs do not "break in" by keeping them compressed, nor do they wear out that way. Kinda why we can leave our mags loaded for years without failure. They do tho weaken slightly tho, by cycling them(loading and unloading them).

 

[LiveLife]

The proverbial 1911 "break-in" period is really a mag break-in period for the guns

Never heard of such a thing.

+1.

I have used 8 round Chip McCormick Power Mags and Wilson Combat 47D magazines for my 1911s along with factory magazines and they have worked right out of the box, especially with SWC loads.

 

[guyfromohio]

Ok. Keep on playing with OAL. I've nothing to win by convincing.

 

[LiveLife]

This is my guess.

On 1911s designed to feed 230 gr RN, as the round is pushed by the slide and nose bumps the ramp, round will point up towards the chamber and mag follower/spring tension will push the case rim up the breech wall and extractor as soon as the case rim clears the magazine lips.

With SWC bullets, bumping of feed ramp and subsequent chambering should be same as RN if loaded to OAL to produce similar contact points as 230 gr RN.

As illustrated in post #6 (and shown in pictures above), we should load HP/FP/SWC profile bullets to match the contact points of RN profile bullets as much as possible for reliable feeding and chambering - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/45acp-1911-problems.832138/#post-10750338

my OAL is 1.135 on these. Max I can fit in there is 1.152 (dropped bullet in chamber, measured to the base of bullet, add distance + bullet height).

What may be happening to OP is that HP round with shorter OAL (due to short blunt nose profile) is pointing up towards the chamber at a sharper angle (when nose bumps the feed ramp) so when the mag follower/spring tension pushes up after case rim clears the magazine lips and extractor cannot accommodate the sharper angle of case rim, the round stove pipes instead of case rim sliding up the breech wall face.

Rounding of bottom of extractor is an option but not sure if OP wants to do that at this point and I suggested creating a new thread in "Gunsmithing and Repairs" category if that's the case - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?forums/gunsmithing-and-repairs.16/

Another issue with OP may be that ATI barrel has shorter leade which may not allow longer OAL to duplicate the contact points of 230 gr RN. As I already suggested, if this is the case, then OP's option is using 200 gr RN or RNFP bullets.

However, OP's ATI may reliably feed and chamber different profile bullets such as 200 gr SWC which replicates contact points of 230 gr RN loaded to OAL that allows .030" of shoulder above case mouth which will fully chamber in my Sig 1911 barrel with no leade.

Load your magazines and let them sit until the next time you shoot ... The proverbial 1911 "break-in" period is really a mag break-in period

Since OP's ATI is feeding factory ammunition reliably, I am thinking magazine lips, follower and spring tension are working properly.

 

[drband]

This is my guess.

On 1911s designed to feed 230 gr RN, as the round is pushed by the slide and nose bumps the ramp, round will point up towards the chamber and mag follower/spring tension will push the case rim up the breech wall and extractor as soon as the case rim clears the magazine lips.

With SWC bullets, bumping of feed ramp and subsequent chambering should be same as RN if loaded to OAL to produce similar contact points as 230 gr RN.

As illustrated in post #6 (and shown in pictures above), we should load HP/FP/SWC profile bullets to match the contact points of RN profile bullets as much as possible for reliable feeding and chambering - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/45acp-1911-problems.832138/#post-10750338

What may be happening to OP is that HP round with shorter OAL (due to short blunt nose profile) is pointing up towards the chamber at a sharper angle (when nose bumps the feed ramp) so when the mag follower/spring tension pushes up after case rim clears the magazine lips and extractor cannot accommodate the sharper angle of case rim, the round stove pipes instead of case rim sliding up the breech wall face.

Rounding of bottom of extractor is an option but not sure if OP wants to do that at this point and I suggested creating a new thread in "Gunsmithing and Repairs" category if that's the case - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?forums/gunsmithing-and-repairs.16/

Another issue with OP may be that ATI barrel has shorter leade which may not allow longer OAL to duplicate the contact points of 230 gr RN. As I already suggested, if this is the case, then OP's option is using 200 gr RN or RNFP bullets.

However, OP's ATI may reliably feed and chamber different profile bullets such as 200 gr SWC which replicates contact points of 230 gr RN loaded to OAL that allows .030" of shoulder above case mouth which will fully chamber in my Sig 1911 barrel with no leade.

Since OP's ATI is feeding factory ammunition reliably, I am thinking magazine lips, follower and spring tension are working properly.

That is a perfect explanation! I agree completely. I hope the OP gets his ATI sorted out.

 

[Walkalong]

If magazine is not the source of problem, I would look at the bullet as the source of the issue next, unless it's the pistol.

Bad mags happen, and mags are often the source of feeding/chambering issues in 1911s. Everyone and their brother makes them, and not all of them are good designs.

http://shop.1911parts.com/Check-Mate-45ACP-7RD-SS-Hybrid-Removable-Base-Full-Size-CM45-7-S-H-RB.htm

http://shop.1911parts.com/Check-Mat...Pad-Full-Size-CM45-8-S-H-RB.htm?categoryId=-1

 

[LiveLife]

Do ATI 1911 come with Mec Gar magazines? https://www.americantactical.us/category/accessories

OP's factory magazines

 

[thomas15]

Maybe it's just me (or mine) but while my Glocks thrive on neglect my Remington R1 1911 is a needy little bugger. It has to be clean and oiled to function properly.

 

[LiveLife]

I call my friend's Armscor RIA Tactical 1911 "Glock" of 1911s as it has enlarged tapered chamber mouth that will accommodate sloppy reloads and will reliably cycle even after several hundred rounds of dirty lead reloads.

My Sig 1911 with very tight chamber will reliably feed SWC reloads within specs (nothing larger than .473" at case mouth) but will start to slow down after several hundred rounds from fouling build up while RIA will keep on shooting without issues.

Of course, Sig 1911 will produce tighter shot groups but I won't hesitate to buy a RIA for reliable shooter. (FYI, Armscor Citadel 1911 actually produced "slightly" smaller shot group than Sig 1911 with a certain bullet for me. And relax Sig fans, that bullet is no longer in production)

 

[Blue68f100]

Check the extractor extension on the 1911. To do this remove the slide, slide a loaded round under the extractor. It should slide in and hold the bullet. And will stay with a little shaking. If it's overly tight it will cause feeding problems. There is a test where they measure the tension on the extractor. Also the shape of the extractor can cause feeding problems too. Mags have been mentioned and it may be as simple as raising the magazine up. Some magazines raise the feed but around 0.015" which can make a huge difference. They make mag catches which raise the magazines to help feeding. Then there is the feed ramp, but we want go there.

What I keep hearing is that your getting what's know as a 3 point jam. This is normally a extractor problem that needs to be tunned.

 

[LiveLife]

Feeds factory 100%, no problem

OP is not experiencing feeding issue with factory rounds, just with reloads using particular HP bullet that is quite stubby.

I could be wrong but reloads with RN or even SWC bullets may feed reliably in OP's pistol. We are trying to figure out if it's the bullet that's causing the feed issue before moving forward to pistol issue.

I could send OP a bullet sample of 200/230 gr RN/SWC bullets. If other bullets work, problem solved. If not, we continue discussion in "Gunsmithing and Repairs" category.

PM sent to OP.

 

[Blue68f100]

I have not seen if he has adj (reduced) the taper crimp a little more to 0.470" - 0.469". I have to watch that on my Kimber. If It's not .470 or lower it has issue.

 

[243winxb]

If the reloads have the hour glass shape, they may not be the same body diameter (smaller) , as factory ammo. The cartridge moves in the magazine more under recoil and when the slides bolt face moves the cartridge forward, it pops out early.

I set my col by the shoulder with 3 different wad cutters. It doesn't matter when the nose is, col. They feed.

The round nose should measure .450" on the bullet, right in front of the case mouth. If it don't chamber, make adjustment.

 

[LiveLife]

I have not seen if he has adj (reduced) the taper crimp a little more to 0.470" - 0.469". I have to watch that on my Kimber. If It's not .470 or lower it has issue.

OP's rounds are not even making it into the chamber, they are stove piping.

I thought "extractor" too but factory rounds are feeding and chambering 100%.

 

[Walkalong]

OP's factory magazines

Haven't had much luck with Mec Gars that look like that. They are "ok".

 

[BigMacMI]

Thank you all for the tips. I did try to adjust crimp a bit 0.470. Seemed to help... a bit. (who knows at this point). I did load 2 mags, one a bit shorter, and one a bit longer, i think I had 1-2 failure in each set where I had to bump the slide forward, or re-sling the slide. I think I will need to load 2 mags each in an additional incrimental test for length.

I am loading with 4.9grains TG (reduced charge because I am using magnum CCI primers). No signs of pressure. I will also bump this up a bit to see if maybe it is a cycle/power problem

 

[Blue68f100]

If you run too low of a charge you may not be getting the slide to go all the back for it to have full momentum to feed a round. Particularly on a full magazine.

Remember the only function of the recoil spring is to feed a round. Most all the recoil impulse is handled with the main spring.

Are you getting these jams when you fully cycle the slide all the way back by hand? or only during fire? If only during fire, you are probably changing grip pressure. Some guns will function no matter what. Others need to be held firm so the energy is not lost.

 

[LiveLife]

OK, got PM from OP.

An assortment of 200/230 gr RN/SWC bullets being sent to OP as "Pay It Forward" to test ATI pistol and factory magazines.

 

[BigMacMI]

Are you getting these jams when you fully cycle the slide all the way back by hand? or only during fire? If only during fire, you are probably changing grip pressure. Some guns will function no matter what. Others need to be held firm so the energy is not lost.

Hand cycle as well

 

[Blue68f100]

Do you have any up/down play in the magazines once seated? Most do a little. Just for grins try setting the magazine on a hard surface with down force and try cycling it. This will raise the magazine a little. Some times it only needs a few thousandths lift to function right. If this is the case they sell mag catches that raise the magazines. Also some brands have the notch cut to raise the mag up, don't recall the brand right now.