.45ACP, Berry's plated bullets and Unique- think I messed up?

[xsquidgator]

I bought a box of Berry's plated 185HBRN (hollowbase round nose) bullets and made a small bunch of 30 last night that I was going to try out before making a bunch of them, since I've never used these bullets before. After thinking about it, I'm a little nervous about the amount of Unique I used, and I may have made an error in interpreting the reloading tables and would like to run this by some of you with experience before trying these.

Looking a Speer #13's guide, there's a load for 185 grain TMJ target rounds using about 5-5.8 gr of Unique and an OAL of 1.275". This says it's just a target load for paper though and isn't "worked up". There's also a load for 185 gr gold-dot HP using 7.3-8.2 gr of Unique and an OAL of 1.200". Alliant powder's web site has a JHP loading with Unique that's very close to the Speer #13 guide loading also, so I consider this reliable.

I made these 185 gr plated hollowbase RN rounds using 7.4 grains of Unique and an OAL of 1.230" just to be conservative. But thinking about it, should I pull the bullets on these and reload them with maybe 5.5 grains Unique instead? I loaded these thinking I was using the starting grains for the HP round and therefore would be light, but this is about 1.5-2 grains more than the max for the target load. Probably ok I would think, but what do you guys in here think?

These rounds will be for practice, but I would probably prefer to load them at least medium say instead of really light, plus I want to be sure they'll cycle the action properly. Berry's said to load their bullets on the low to medium side of loads for the same size lead bullet. I don't have any loads listed for a hollowbase bullet, but I'm wondering if the extra volume inside the hollow base of the bullet gives you a little extra safety margin against overpressure?

Comments and advice are quite welcome. I could I guess work up a load a few tenths of a grain at a time, but I'd really really like to save all the time, trouble, and trips to the range if I can correctly use these reloading tables.

 

[Canuck-IL]

They should be safe and fairly warm...but that's not really the way to go about finding a load. Safety is worth a little more patience and a few trips to the range. You're changing OAL, bullet profile, bullet construction and powder load all at once - not wise.

I'm basing the expectation that they're safe and will function OK on the 48th Ed. of the Lyman manual....185 JSWC and 185 JHP show a max of 7.5 and 7.8 Unique respectively BUT, at OALs of 1.135 and 1.175 (really short!!)....so with your OAL at 1.230 you should be OK. You should do a proper load development though.

BTW, I believe Berry's standard recommendation is for medium jacketed loads. Rainier's suggest lead loads as a basis - they're plating is thinner/softer than Berry's.
/Bryan

 

[Walkalong]

I agree with Canuck-IL, both that the loads will be "warm" and that you should start in the middle of data when trying something new.

 

[BSlacker]

I have loaded the Berrys 185 RN at 7.1gr Unique it went 776fps average from a P220. OAL 1.200". I think you will be ok just a little warm.

 

[benedict1]

Heat

MY MIDWAY LOAD MAP BOOK SHOWS 185 GR. RNFP AT 7.4 GR. UNIQUE ZIPPING ALONG AT ABOUT 930 FPS. YOU'LL REMEMBER THESE FOR AWHILE, I OPINE!

 

[xsquidgator]

Hmm, thanks very much for all this information (especially the important point about Berry's vs Rainier's plated bullets!)

I think I agree about starting conservatively with new loads, also. Actually I thought I was at first by using the starting grains for the gold-dot HP, but perhaps not?

Anyway, thanks again for the info and especially for your experience with this bullet and powder. I think I'll be ok trying these at least without having to pull the bullets and re-loading them with less powder. If these 30 rounds belonged to you, would you pull and re-do them, or would you just expend them? Hearing that some of you have shot this bullet with 7+ grains of Unique makes me feel better, I had been worried that I was using 7.5 grains when the proper load should have been around 5. I will be shooting these out of a fairly new SW M&P45.

 

[joneb]

What kind of primer ? I've found that subbing WLP for Federal 150 makes a difference, I will back off a 3-4, 10ths of a grain when doing this. I will also back off a 1/2 gr and work back up when switching from jacketed to plated, this is in the context of the .45 acp. sometimes with plated bullets I end up using less powder and sometimes not.
I load more for accuracy than velocity, so my loads are not max to begin with, I will reference several sources when trying something new. good luck

 

[GaryL]

If these 30 rounds belonged to you, would you pull and re-do them, or would you just expend them?

If it was me, I would bag and label them, and make up a few groups of 10 each of some lighter loads, something like 5.5gr, 6.0gr, 6.5gr, and 7.0gr, properly bagged and tagged. Then I'd go to the range and give them a try, starting with the 5.5gr. If at any point there is any pressure signs, stop there and bring home the remainder and break those down right away.

I usually like to have some factory loads to compare against. That won't provide any true pressure information, but if they 'feel' more hard hitting than a comparable factory round, then I feel there's reason to think the 'ice' is getting thin.

 

[xsquidgator]

Gary,
That sounds like a really good idea, I think I'll give that a try.

Jibjab- I'm using CCI 300 (Large Pistol) primers. Those are the only LP ones I have.

 

[Steve C]

Your loads will shoot just fine. How good they'll do on paper will be found at the range. I use 7.7 grs of Unique with a Remington 185gr JHP lit with a Win LPP and they run around 1,050 fps from my 1911 Gov, Commander and Sig 220 .45's.

 

[PsychoKnight]

You can "reverse" increment. I mean, don't pull the bullets. Don't shoot them yet. Mark them clearly. Load a 5 or 10 batch at the starting load you would prefer to use, then subsequently increase by .2gr up to the load you are concerned about. Keep them organized and labeled.

Now you have sequential test loads worked up properly, without having to pull your first batch due to unfounded concerned. Make sure you check the fired brass and spent primer conditions from the first of each load, then the rest of the load batch before moving on to the next higher load. Look for smilies on case walls, flattened/cratered primers, etc.

 

[xsquidgator]

You can "reverse" increment. I mean, don't pull the bullets. Don't shoot them yet. Mark them clearly. Load a 5 or 10 batch at the starting load you would prefer to use, then subsequently increase by .2gr up to the load you are concerned about. Keep them organized and labeled.

Now you have a sequential test loads worked up properly, without having to pull your first batch out of unfounded concerned. Make sure you check the fired brass and spent primer conditions from the first of each load, then the rest of the load before moving on to the next higher load.

That's kind of what I'm going to do, although my increments are more like 0.5grains (5.5, 6, 6.5, 7, and 7.5). I should be able to test them out tomorrow, starting with the 5.5 grain ones of course.

 

[PsychoKnight]

That's kind of what I'm going to do, although my increments are more like 0.5grains (5.5, 6, 6.5, 7, and 7.5). I should be able to test them out tomorrow, starting with the 5.5 grain ones of course.

Cool.
But I've had a problem one time testing in .5gr increments, particularly with a moderately fast burning powder like Unique (it was faster than Unique, but it taught me to be cautious in a most unforgetable way).
.5gr is 10% of a published 5.0gr target load and 6% of a 8.0gr load. Half gr increments for a 20 or 25gr load is no big deal, but in a 5.0 or 7.0 load, it is a significant increase. In my case, I neglected to note that 2 of the 10 cases in a batch had smilies. Checked the first five and thought the rest would be the same. The first round of the next batch at .5gr higher delivered a complimentary magazine removal and complete magazine disassembly. Glad it was a plastic magazine, releasing the pressure, resulting in no damage - I got lucky.
While its a bit of a pain, I feel .2 or .3gr increments are safer and they also allow me to find the charge providing the most accuracy with that powder.
Regardless, looks like you are on the right track. Good luck.

 

[xsquidgator]

Cool.
But I've had a problem one time testing in .5gr increments, particularly with a moderately fast burning powder like Unique (it was faster than Unique, but it taught me to be cautious in a most unforgetable way).
.5gr is 10% of a published 5.0gr target load and 6% of a 8.0gr load. Half gr increments for a 20 or 25gr load is no big deal, but in a 5.0 or 7.0 load, it is a significant increase. In my case, I neglected to note that 2 of the 10 cases in a batch had smilies. Checked the first five and thought the rest would be the same. The first round of the next batch at .5gr higher delivered a complimentary magazine removal and complete magazine disassembly. Glad it was a plastic magazine, releasing the pressure, resulting in no damage - I got lucky.
While its a bit of a pain, I feel .2 or .3gr increments are safer and they also allow me to find the charge providing the most accuracy with that powder.
Regardless, looks like you are on the right track. Good luck.

Oh. By 'smilies' are you talking about a bulge in the case from previous firings?

 

[xsquidgator]

Thanks all for the advice. I tried out the various loads today after work and quit when I got up to 6.5 grains of Unique. The 6.5 grain loads (these are with Berry's plated 185 HBRN) were fairly "stout" at least up there with the Winchester white box 230FMJ in felt recoil, and the primers were showing a little bit of pushing out the striker dimple. Just a little, but I was thinking that my increment between loads was 0.5 grains instead of 0.2 The brass on these 6.5 gr loads looked just fine, but not having a chronograph to gather more info, I figured I'd quit while I was ahead. When I got home tonight I pulled the bullets on all of these rounds that had more than 6.5 grains. I think i'll re-do them at 6.0 grains of Unique and just use that as my practice 185HBRN load. 5.5 grains was definitely light feeling although it operated my pistol (M&P 45) just fine without any jams or problems.

 

[BAT1]

Berry's

I just pressed 185's out with 4.6 -5.2 gr of Titegroup and the lighter loads shoot better. I did 750 rounds. Now I'm pulling the rounds from 5.0 to 5.2 to remake them with 4.8 gr. The lighter loads are going to have less recoil and better accuracy, while saving powder. I pull them, knock them into a small bartenders mix cup with holes in the top, and the pour the powder back into the jar while the bullets remain. You only have thirty rounds, pull them and get a lower load that will shoot accurately, and you save the gun from the stress of a higher load. It works great for a four inch barrel. Feels like a 9 mm. No scars either.

 

[GaryL]

When I got home tonight I pulled the bullets on all of these rounds that had more than 6.5 grains. I think i'll re-do them at 6.0 grains of Unique and just use that as my practice 185HBRN load. 5.5 grains was definitely light feeling although it operated my pistol (M&P 45) just fine without any jams or problems.

Now that you have an idea where you want to be, load a few in the .2gr increments from 5.5gr to about 6.3gr, and see how accurate they are. You should be able to locate a 'sweet' spot that allows +/- .1gr with little or no change in point of impact.

 

[HankB]

FWIW, my older Sierra manual shows a maximum load of 8.5 grains of Unique with their 185 JHP . . . I'd guess this is into "+P" territory.