45ACP bullet weight vs perceived recoil

[JCSC]

My progression with loading 45 ACP 1911 was starting out with pc lead and FMJ 230 gr with either HP38 or tightgroup. My wife didn’t care for the 230 gr snap, so I switched to a 200 gr plated SWC and a 200 gr plated RN. After fine tuning I am very pleased with the recoil impulse from the lighter loads. )4.7gr HP38 YMMV)

Would I expect to see a similar result going from 200-185? I have standardized with HP38/Win 231 not that it should matter much.

In my loading experience with 9MM it always felt as if the lighter 115 gr had more recoil than 124’s. That doesn’t seem to be the case with 45.

 

[fxvr5]

If loading with the same powder and powder charge, lighter bullets will produce less recoil.

If loading with the same powder to the same Power Factor (as in competition), the heavier bullet will produce less recoil.

Power Factor & Recoil: Which Bullet Weight Gives You the Edge? - Shooting Times

When reloading for competition, which bullet weight gives you the edge? Find out how to reload for competition with this guide for power factor and recoil.

www.shootingtimes.com

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Well, like my old professor of Newtonian physics said, F=ma, always and everywhere. The a is acceleration which is the derivative of velocity which is itself the derivative of change in position; so the speed of acceleration factors into the Force equation more than the mass. Bottom line, you can reduce recoil more by driving a heavy bullet slower than by driving a light bullet the same speed. The comparison hardly matters though because recoil is perceptive not objective. A low recoil weapon can feel like it’s going to rip your hand off and a heavy recoil weapon can feel like a .22Rimfire. It’s all about fit and how the person perceives (anticipates?) the recoil.

 

[cfullgraf]

If you have not done any modifications to your 1911, it probably has a 16 pound main recoil spring. You can probably replace it with an 18 pound recoil spring with no loss in reliability.

It should give some reduction in felt recoil. Depending on your reloads, you could be at the low end of reliability even with the 16 pound spring.

Recoil springs are inexpensive so worth a try.

But lighter bullets will reduced felt recoil as well.

 

[Slamfire]

I am running a 12 to 13 lb recoil spring on my Les Baer Wadcutter, I am shooting 200 H&G type LSWC's with 4.0 grains Bullseye Pistol Powder. A 2700 Bullseye Pistol bud of mine is using 4.2 grs Bullseye pistol powder for 185 LHPWC. He also has to use light recoil springs.

These are light loads, things like using grease as a lube, or changing primers (my experience was going from WLP to CCI500) can cause failures to feed. The slide does not go fully back and hits the round somewhere near the middle, causing a jam.

I recently purchased 185 LSWC's from a commercial bullet caster. The two of us walked to his test range and I fired some of his 185 LSWC's loads with old Winchester 452AA gunpowder. Too bad 452AA was discontinued as the load I fired was both accurate and light recoiling.

 

[LiveLife]

wife didn’t care for the 230 gr snap, so I switched to a 200 gr plated SWC and a 200 gr plated RN. After fine tuning I am very pleased with the recoil impulse from the lighter loads. )4.7gr HP38 YMMV)

While I like 200 gr SWC with 4.8 gr W231/HP-38, 200 gr SWC with 4.0 gr of Promo/Red Dot has been the lightest recoil load that's my wife's favorite.

 

[CQB45ACP]

The only one who’ll know what you feel from the change is you. But you already know that—load some up and go shoot.

Others have their own experiences of course but this isn’t objective. Now if you want to get into power and velocity that’s a different kettle of fish.

I’d agree there’s little point in comparing changes to felt recoil between 9mm & 45acp especially if one is shooting a 40+ ounce 1911. Heck I can’t get much felt recoil out of 9mm regardless of load and bullet weight.

Speaking of physics, I remember vividly in the fall of 1970 my physics professor, Dr. Webb, said “if polar ice caps melt one inch, you better get the he** out of Norfolk.” Don’t recall anything else he said.

 

[ballman6711]

I worked up a load for my gf using 4.7gr W231 under a 230gr jrn. She loved it, very soft shooting.

I usually load 185gr swc (plated or coated) using Speer's 185gr TMJ data, which is lighter than most others. Soft shooting and accurate in my 3" 1911.

Not reloading related, but you could install a flat bottom firing pin stop. It won't reduce recoil, but it will change how the recoil impulse feels. In my gun, it made a big difference.

chris

 

[CQB45ACP]

I worked up a load for my gf using 4.7gr W231 under a 230gr jrn. She loved it, very soft shooting.

I usually load 185gr swc (plated or coated) using Speer's 185gr TMJ data, which is lighter than most others. Soft shooting and accurate in my 3" 1911.

Not reloading related, but you could install a flat bottom firing pin stop. It won't reduce recoil, but it will change how the recoil impulse feels. In my gun, it made a big difference.

chris

Not to hijack OPs thread, but you mean this, right?

I had no idea it had any such affect. In fact I have three 1911s from this maker and just this one has a flat bottomed thingamajig.

 

[ballman6711]

That's 100% correct. The flat bottom (really a small radius) slows the slide by robbing energy earlier in the slides cycle.

Someone else can explain it a lot better than me.

chris

 

[JCSC]

I worked up a load for my gf using 4.7gr W231 under a 230gr jrn. She loved it, very soft shooting.

I usually load 185gr swc (plated or coated) using Speer's 185gr TMJ data, which is lighter than most others. Soft shooting and accurate in my 3" 1911.

Not reloading related, but you could install a flat bottom firing pin stop. It won't reduce recoil, but it will change how the recoil impulse feels. In my gun, it made a big difference.

chris

I switched to a square stop a couple weeks ago, so got that covered.

 

[SingleActionAndrew]

I switched to a square stop a couple weeks ago, so got that covered.

Did you perceive significant affect on recoil?

 

[JCSC]

Not really sure. I’m going to take both versions and shoot them back to back.

 

[Charlie98]

I had no idea it had any such affect. In fact I have three 1911s from this maker and just this one has a flat bottomed thingamajig.

I have to admit, I've been shooting .45's since 1986, and I've never paid any attention to the retention plate. Now I have to go bust open the safe and look at my .45's...


As far as bullet weight, I picked up a 4" alloy .45 a few years ago, my hardball load (230grn FMJ over 6.5grn Unique) really socks your hand... and I'm guessing it's not doing the alloy frame any favors, either. I worked up a few loads with the 200grn bullet and a little faster powder and came up with a few loads that don't thrash the pistol... or my hand. My favorite load is a 200grn plated or cast bullet over a max charge of WST... it not only was a soft shooter, but very likely the most accurate load workup I've had with the .45. Bonus is it still works the action 100% with the standard weight recoil spring (22#, if memory serves.)

 

[reddog81]

Hodgdon's data with a 200 grn LSWC starts at 4.4 grains HP-38. If you want a lighter load I'd try that first before changing bullets.

I've gone down to 3.6 grains Bullseye before and it's a very tame load and won't function in some guns.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I have to admit, I've been shooting .45's since 1986, and I've never paid any attention to the retention plate. Now I have to go bust open the safe and look at my .45's...


As far as bullet weight, I picked up a 4" alloy .45 a few years ago, my hardball load (230grn FMJ over 6.5grn Unique) really socks your hand... and I'm guessing it's not doing the alloy frame any favors, either. I worked up a few loads with the 200grn bullet and a little faster powder and came up with a few loads that don't thrash the pistol... or my hand. My favorite load is a 200grn plated or cast bullet over a max charge of WST... it not only was a soft shooter, but very likely the most accurate load workup I've had with the .45. Bonus is it still works the action 100% with the standard weight recoil spring (22#, if memory serves.)

AJ (@bigpower491) turned me onto Ramshot Competition for light .45 loads a few years ago. I tested as low as 3.6gr and as high as 4.6gr - all w/ 200gr XTP or LSWC. The lead loads cycled best at 4.2gr and recoil in my Star M45 was very light. But that’s me in my guns. YMMV.

 

[film495]

the only thing I've ever noticed about bullet weight and this is just anecdotal, is a lighter bullet has quicker recoil, and a heavier one will transfer nrg back to your hand a bit slower and flip the muzzle a bit more, but in a way that may make shooting follow up shots much smoother. perceived recoil is about perception, but also depends on grip, hand size, stance, strength, other. but, since you handload, the good news is you can trial and error all you want. my assumption would be the lightest load with the lightest bullet available, would produce the least perceived recoil becuase it will have the least actual recoil. mouse fart target loads really. if they'll cycle the action, and you're on published data, load up some mouse farts, you're wife will appreciate them for practice, I shoot mostly mouse farts just becuase they are easy to shoot and it is trigger time and fine practice IMHO.

 

[JCSC]

I’m good with mouse fart loads and I have my springs adjusted as such. I switch back to factory if I am shooting 230 gr traditional loads.

RIA runs a 18# main spring and 18.6# recoil spring per their customer service team.

 

[ballman6711]

I haven't done much with the 200gr bullets yet even though I have a bunch of them. But my 185gr load is 5.4gr W231 with a COL of 1.245". It's very tame even in my 3" alloy frame 1911. I will probably start there when I start loading the 200gr bullets and make adjustments if needed.

Here's the link to Speer's online 185gr TMJ. There 200gr data is actually a bit heavier.

https://reloadingdata.speer.com/downloads/speer/reloading-pdfs/handgun/45_Automatic_185_TMJ_SWC.pdf

chris

 

[lordpaxman]

The comparison hardly matters though because recoil is perceptive not objective.

ShootersCalculator.com | Recoil Calculator

An online calculator that calculates the recoil energy, impulse, and velocity of a firearm according to the firearm's weight, powder charge, bullet weight, and bullet muzzle velocity.

shooterscalculator.com

You can run the numbers to compare heavy/light/fast/slow to see what the calculated values are. How that translates and is perceived by the brain is subjective. I run my minor loads at SCSA, but have a number of colleagues who shoot the lightest bullet possible at just above squib velocities.
When PF isn’t an issue, I load 200 SWCs rather than 230gr for my 625 for soft shooting loads. I would expect 185s to be even softer.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

ShootersCalculator.com | Recoil Calculator

An online calculator that calculates the recoil energy, impulse, and velocity of a firearm according to the firearm's weight, powder charge, bullet weight, and bullet muzzle velocity.

shooterscalculator.com

You can run the numbers to compare heavy/light/fast/slow to see what the calculated values are. How that translates and is perceived by the brain is subjective. I run my minor loads at SCSA, but have a number of colleagues who shoot the lightest bullet possible at just above squib velocities.
When PF isn’t an issue, I load 200 SWCs rather than 230gr for my 625 for soft shooting loads. I would expect 185s to be even softer.

Yup. I’m pretty familiar with force equations. The angle formed by the position of the breach face relative to the grip forms a fulcrum which the bullet traveling through barrel levers against to create recoil. So barrel position and grip angle are factors in weapon comparison but it’s also going to be a factor in load comparison.
There’s a lot to think about but the bottom line is acceleration is a derivative while mass is multiplicative. A load that decelerates before exiting the barrel will cause a slight reverse recoil But you have to have a practiced hand to feel it. That’s one of the reasons very fast powders with heavier bullets can feel soft shooting.

 

[CQB45ACP]

Yup. I’m pretty familiar with force equations. The angle formed by the position of the breach face relative to the grip forms a fulcrum which the bullet traveling through barrel levers against to create recoil. So barrel position and grip angle are factors in weapon comparison but it’s also going to be a factor in load comparison.
There’s a lot to think about but the bottom line is acceleration is a derivative while mass is multiplicative. A load that decelerates before exiting the barrel will cause a slight reverse recoil But you have to have a practiced hand to feel it. That’s one of the reasons very fast powders with heavier bullets can feel soft shooting.

So your last sentence could include Bullseye w/a 230gr for example?

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

So your last sentence could include Bullseye w/a 230gr for example?

The only criteria is for the bullet to begin decelerating before exiting the barrel. How it gets there isn’t the question.

 

[CQB45ACP]

The only criteria is for the bullet to begin decelerating before exiting the barrel. How it gets there isn’t the question.

It’s all beyond me

 

[Jim Watson]

I have never heard of a pistol bullet decelerating in the barrel. Commonly heard of an extra low expansion ratio setup like a .22 that can slow down after say 14" (CCI MiniMag in BBI) but in a pistol barrel with maybe 4" of rifling?

When the Limited shooters found that a 220 gr .40 and quant. suff. Clays FELT soft, they didn't realize chamber pressure was high and were beating up guns.