45acp carbine

[Hastings]

Has any manufacturer ever made a lever-action 45acp rifle or carbine? It seems doable, but I have never heard of one, but it seams like a good idea.

45acp single action revolver use the case rim to seat against, and the 30-30 is a rimless cartridge, so it seems possible to use a straight walled cartridge that seats against the rim in a lever gun. I have been reloading 45acp with 255gr RNFP bullets traveling at 950fps, which is a match for moderate 45colt loads with the same bullet (I load them for my S&W Mountain Gun and Ruger Vaquero). Since I can get the same ballistics as the 45colt in the 45acp, using 2grains less powder, in a cartridge that is significant shorter, a 45acp levergun with a full-length tube might hold fifteen to twenty rounds and be a nice companion to a 45acp revolver or 1911. Plus, the action would be short, making the lever stroke very short and quick. Does anyone know of a manufacturer who has made one of these?

Thanks
Hastings.

 

[JK47]

This was posted on the Marlin Owners forum the other day:
http://www.marlinowners.com/forums/index.php/topic,65695.0.html

It's a Marlin 1894 .45 LC converted to a .45 ACP "Take-Down" lever gun,
ala Dave Clay. That's some nice work! That could be my next project......or really his (Clay).

 

[parsimonious_instead]

Greetings:

I think there's a gun called the Marlin Camp Carbine.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=171657501

On the Gun Rights Radio Network, there's a fellow named Jerome that has an audio
podcast review for the Marlin .45, as well as pithy and interesting material on other firearms, as well.

 

[Lorenzo Rojo]

Okay, the .45 acp round is taper crimped against a smooth jacketed or lead bullet. Lever guns traditionally feed from tube magazines and work best with roll crimped rounds into a cannelure. If you were to select lead with a cannelure and put a sweet crimp into the groove, AND you had a custom lever gun, you could probably get the capacity you were looking for. It is such a specialized idea, I'm not surprised that it really isn't done.

 

[CraigC]

No factory guns have ever been produced in the ACP but Dave Clay's custom job proves it can be done. Probably not an overly expensive proposition, relatively speaking. I think it would be a really neat rifle to own, as would a similar 10mm.

BTW, the .30-30 is rimmed.

 

[wayne in boca]

I have a .45 ACP FAL conversion by Rhineland Arms that I like a lot.It is of course semiautomatic and uses 30 round M3 grease gun mags.Lots of fun to burn 30 rounds of high priced ammo in 5 seconds,and surprisingly accurate to 100 yards.

 

[yotesmoker]

Hastings,what powder do you use with the 255gr to get 950fps?Isn't the recoil a little stiff in a 1911?

 

[MachIVshooter]

Like Lorenzo said, the biggest problem is no roll crimped factory ammo. Even the mild recoil of .45 ACP would likely cause bullet set-back with so many stacked in the tube.

But I also agree that if you handload and do roll crimp them (or heavy taper crimp on soft bullets), it'd work fine.

You won't get as many rounds as you suspect, though, without a really long barrel. The Marlin 1894 standard holds 10 .44 mag cartridges, which are ~.4" longer than .45 ACP. So for a rifle that same length, you're looking at 13 rounds. I'd rather have 10 of the much more potent cartrdiges, personally.

I wonder if anyone has tried running .45 Auto rim in a .45 Colt levergun. Might have to turn down the rim, but I bet it'd work.

and the 30-30 is a rimless cartridge

It's rimmed.

 

[Hastings]

Hastings,what powder do you use with the 255gr to get 950fps?Isn't the recoil a little stiff in a 1911?

yotesmoker:

I use between 6.9 grains of Unique behind a 255gr hardcast RNFP .452 bullet. I haven't shot them thru a 1911. I have a S&W 22-4 Thunder Ranch, which is a fixed sight, 4" square butt N-frame revolver. I chrono'ed 18 of the loads a few weeks ago and came up with 946fps average when fired 16 feet from the chrono. They hit at poa at 25 yards in the 22-4, and the recoil is about like a +p 230gr factory load. Unique is pretty smokey, and leaves a fair amount of soot, so I'm currently working up a load with Blue Dot, and another with Titegroup. I'm looking for some W231 or HP-38 to try, too. The Unique loads are fairly uniform in velocity and quite accurate thru the revolver. I was trying to match my load for my 45colt S&W Mountain Gun, which is 8.6 grains of Unique behind the same 255grain bullet. That load pushes the 255 along at between 908 and 932 fps. I find I prefer the 45acp since it seems to group tighter (on target even with the fixed sights), and uses less powder to do so. The recoil is about the same, but the 45colt seems to produce more smoke/soot, and the case fill is obviously better on the 45acp, which seems safer from an accidental double-charge standpoint.

I have some other questions on the 45acp levergun. I had contemplated turning a 1894 Marlin Cowboy in 45colt (with the 20" barrel) into a 45acp levergun. The longer barrel is similar to my Marlin 1895 Cowboy 45-70 levergun, so I'm comfortable with the longer barrel. I can hold 9 45-70 rounds in the tube of the 1895 cowboy with a 24" barrel. I would imagine at least 15 45acp rounds would fit in a 20inch barreled model with a full length tube. I assume that due to the higher pressure and lower case capacity of the 45acp, it could not be loaded to the same potential as the 45colt in a rifle, but since I would be using the same rounds in both my revolver and the rifle I wouldn't be loading anything beyond the 255grainer at 950fps, or perhaps a 300grain in the 825fps range (these velocities being measured from the 4" revolver). I would think I could get another 90-175 fps out of a 20" barrel as long as the powder burn was slow enough to take advantage of the extra length. I use the 45acp revolver for coyotes when they get to close while I'm scouting out deer and bear hunting locations, and the added sight radius and range the rifle would give would be helpful for the ones that hang back at 75-100 yards. I know a 22mag would do the trick, but I like 41 caliber or larger and can't reload for 22mag/17hmr. Plus, I carry the 22-4 as a CC weapon and am most comfortable with the N-frame Smiths, so having a rifle in the same cartridge appeals to me, and I'm not a fan of semi-auto rifles.


By the way, JK47, that link was great. I'll have to give Dave Clay a call to see how much the conversion would run.

CraigC: I agree, a 10mm lever gun would be a great companion to a S&W 610 or 1006 (actually, the handgun would make a nice companion to the rifle). A 40s&w would be a nice plinker, too. For those of us who aren't fans of semi-auto rifles, the short cases in a levergun designed around them would be really sweet. For now, I guess conversions are the only option.

Thanks again.
Hastings