45ACP Case Burns

[rwdwrt]

What causes these burn / powder marks on the cases sides?
Is it the crimp? to heavy?
These where loaded with 5.1gr Tightgroup with 200gr Rainier RN plated bullets (1.26 COAL) and also some where 5.1 gr Tightgroup with 200gr Hornady HP XTP (1.23 COAL) , brass is Starline and wolf primers where used.
Firearm is SA XD 45 compact and loading dies where LEE with the crimp being the factory crimp die set at one full turn after contact with case mouth at setting.

 

[zxcvbob]

Titegroup just does that. It's one reason I don't like it.

 

[Sunray]

Please reduce the size of your picture.
For some reason the case isn't expanding to seal the chamber. The load is well under max of 5.4. Your crimp, that should be a taper crimp only, might be uneven. Not likely. I'd have a look at the chamber.

 

[Balrog]

Titegroup just does that. It has been described in several other threads here. I load 45 ACP with titegroup, and most of the cases come out smoked. It cleans up easy in the tumbler though.

 

[TonyAngel]

I don't know that it would be right to just say that titegroup just does that. I've never loaded with titegroup, but those cases sure look like they didn't expand enough to seal the brass in the chamber as the rounds went off. As mentioned above, I'd check your crimp. What are you crimping with? Are you sure that your chamber is perfectly round?

From one post, I gather that your load is well under the max. If this is true, you might want to bump the load up a couple of tenths of a grain and see if you can get them to seal up in the chamber when they go off.

If you are trying to shoot light loads, maybe trying a faster powder will help.

 

[Randy1911]

The only cases that I've seen like that have always had too low a pressure to seal the chamber.

 

[Sunray]

"...cases come out smoked..." Those cases aren't smoked. They've been flamed. Might have been cooked enough to ruin the cases too.

 

[Balrog]

I've never loaded with titegroup, but those cases sure look like they didn't expand enough to seal the brass in the chamber as the rounds went off.

I think the reason you don't think titegroup does that is because you hae never loaded with titegroup. Those burns are a little larger than moste titegroup burns I have seen.

 

[Walkalong]

Titegroup just does that. It's one reason I don't like it.

Yep.

Ever hear of the "Titegroup stain"? I first read about in in a mag somewhere, and then experienced it when trying Titegroup.

That said, the lack of pressure, or pressure sustained long enough, in any caliber with any powder, can blacken the sides of cases due to a lack of a good seal in the chamber.

It certainly isn't your crimp doing it in that load. The crimp has very, very little to do with how well the powder burns in a .45 ACP load.

Try some AA #2, or WST, or Clays, or N320, and watch most of the blackening go away, and 99% of the stain.

Those cases aren't smoked. They've been flamed. Might have been cooked enough to ruin the cases too.

Yep. Stained, not just smoked up, but no, it hasn't hurt the cases.

 

[LiveLife]

Can you try varying the powder charges to see if the burns continue? Make several loads with 2-3/10 grain increments.

If that doesn't help, do you have other powder you can try?

 

[The Bushmaster]

Resize/decap, prime, load and fire them again...Repeat as necessary...Titegroup isn't the only powder that will "burn" a case like that. No harm at all.

 

[rwdwrt]

Thanks folks, just good to hear this is not uncommon, the shells all shot well. I think i will bump up the charge. The next slot in my LEE turrent disk is 5.4gr of Tightgroup, I may just give it a try. the max for FMJ bullets is 5.2 and the max for Lead is 5.4, at least in the Hogedon manual, my Hornady manual shows 5.5 as max for a 200gr FMJ, if I remember correctly.

 

[Mikey_P]

Wow! I was just going to start a thread about this. I shot a lot yesterday and that is how my cases looked. I didn't load them but it's nice to know not a big deal. Thanks guys.

 

[idahoglock36]

I'm getting the same results with WST. 4.7 over a Missouri Bullet IDP #4 200 grain. I just ordered some of their softer Cowboy #4 to see if I get a better seal.

It does clean up easily though and I haven't been that worried about it.

 

[Walkalong]

WST shot very clean for me. I like it.

 

[Randy1911]

I load my target loads with W231. I never get burns on the outside of the case. My load: 200 gr. LSWC, 5.4 grs. W231 and Win. large primer, COL 1.250 and crimp to .470.

 

[idahoglock36]

I guess I should clarify. I really, really like WST. I have shot a bunch and will continue to use it.

With the combination I mentioned I am having problems. This is a relative new combo for me and I think it is not related to the powder or bullet (but my combination of the two). I think I'm not pushing it fast enough to get a seal...I have also mentioned on another thread I am getting some leading from this combo....Kind of reinforces my thought that I'm not getting the bullets up to speed. The bullets shoot really soft and the brass falls at my feet.

So I'm going to use a softer bullet. As far as WST it has always been super clean and is now my choice for .45, 9mm and .38.

 

[TheotherMikeG]

One of my favorite loads is 5.2 gr titegroup under a 200 gr swc. I've never noticed any flaming, but I'll be paying closer attention.

 

[bullseye308]

The next slot in my LEE turrent disk is 5.4gr of Tightgroup, I may just give it a try. the max for FMJ bullets is 5.2 and the max for Lead is 5.4, at least in the Hogedon manual, my Hornady manual shows 5.5 as max for a 200gr FMJ, if I remember correctly.

Just caught that and it looked wrong. You are weighing these on an actual scale, right? Not going by what the Lee paper says that hole will drop? Please tell me you have an actual scale and use it so I can sleep at night.

Just looking out for your safety. If you do have a scale and use it please disregard my last.

 

[JDGray]

Just looking out for your safety. If you do have a scale and use it please disregard my last.

Always a great idea to weigh the charge.

But them disc usually drop light, or very close in my experiance, so no real danger of a splosian

 

[TonyAngel]

Yeah, always weigh the charges to make sure of what you are getting. Powder density changes from lot to lot. Although it will usually drop too light of a charge, it could go the other, and there are those powders where too light a charge can cause detonation.

 

[ljnowell]

if you are using a lee auto disk, i bet you arent getting as much powder in it as you think you are.

 

[more forty fives]

I have used almost 5lbs of titrgroup in 45acp over the last 6 month's and never seen a case burned like that.I do put a taper crimp on all my 45's.

 

[Win1892]

Win 231 solved that problem for me

 

[streakr]

3.9 Clays and a tight taper crimp should solve your problem

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