46.0 gr IMR 4350 in .270

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BigFatKen

BigFatKen

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Walnut Hill, about 35 miles west of Auburn, AL
My Lee loader 3.4cc dipper throws 46.0 gr of IMR 4350 for 2553 fps with 130gr jacketed bullet. I do not need super speed as the range will not exceed 175 yards. Is there a detonation posiblility? Is this too light? It appears that if I use a 3.6 I will get 48.7 and 3.8 will be 51.4

Where should I start?
 
No, it will not detonate. You will probably not get erratic ignition either. I had very positive results with IMR4350 in 270 with 130 grainers with charges between 48 and 56 grains, and settled on 55 grains as having the best accuracy at proper hunting velocities. ( less than 1" groups at 100 yards in my Sig SHR970 with Win 130gr SPs).
LT
 
I don't think you'll have serious problems with that load, but you're consistency will be poor.

This will not generate enough pressure to get a consistent burn.

I too have found best accuracy between 54.0 and 55.0 with IMR4350 and 130gr bullet in .270wcf.

For lower velocities I would use IMR or H4895. With either of these, you can go as low as 60% and still get reasonable consistence and accuracy.

I doubt that you are "actually" getting 46.0gr with the 3.4 dipper, unless you have actually weighed it. Most often the dippers will throw 5-10% lighter than they claim in Lee data.
Ask me how I know ????
(been loading with them for over 30yrs..................)
 
Stinger




Where should I start?
Click to expand...

Honestly, you need to start with a load manual and a scale. I mean no disrespect, but am as serious as I can be.
Click to expand...

One of the reasons I stopped posting on THR for a while was useless and somewhat insulting posts like this one. If Stinger had ever seen a Lee loader powder sheet, he would have known there is a "never exceed" limit. The 3.4 dipper was included because it throws the right amount for the lightest bullets. The user is supposed to buy the complete set of dippers if he needs it.

So, the Lee sheet was a .270 load manual for 4 powders with 130 gr bullets. The dippers system is little different from all powder measure like my Dillion which use a voluume dispenser.

When I reloaded heavily, I once made weighed charges and tried them against a up/down crank powder measure. At 100 yards with a hunting quanity rifle, I could not see a decernible difference in the 1 1/2 inch groups
 
If Stinger had ever seen a Lee loader powder sheet, he would have known there is a "never exceed" limit. The 3.4 dipper was included because it throws the right amount for the lightest bullets. The user is supposed to buy the complete set of dippers if he needs it.
Click to expand...

I've seen the Lee dippers. I own a set. I stand by my statement.

Sorry if my opinion hurts your feelings.
 
Honestly, you need to start with a load manual and a scale. I mean no disrespect, but am as serious as I can be.
Click to expand...

None of the three loading manuals I have include burn rates, pressure curves, or detonation problems with the exception of "Do not start at less than 90% of max for slow burning Powders like 4831 and 4350."

You first post really said nothing to add to the discussion. How would a manual and scale have helped answer my question?
 
46gr of IMR isn't enough powder. Get up to 49-50gr. My wimpy accuracy load is 52.5 gr.

The comment about the scale and manual is right on. The Lee scale is inexpensive and very good.
No one is out to bust your chops. But the dippers just aren't the best option for dispensing powder.

ZM
 
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My wimpy accuracy load is 52.5 gr.
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I did not catch the important word. Is this your best accuracy load?

Or because some guys load them north of 55.5 gr, it is your accuracy load, but somewhat wimpy?

I tried the ball bearing Lee "safety scale" and perhaps it was too simple for me to figure it out. I got the type I learned on chemistry class.
 
I'm starting with 54.3 gr

I too have found best accuracy between 54.0 and 55.0 with IMR4350 and 130gr bullet in .270wcf.
Click to expand...

I picked 54.3 gr for a start. I have measured my overall length at 3.375 for my first cartridge with Sierra 130 gr GameKing, spitzer boatail. This is greater than the factory spec of max length of 3.340 The first cartridge enters the magazine and chamber. It retracts without pulling the bullet. I cannot see any land marks, but if they are present, they are very light. I used to make cartridges for top accuracy by just touching the lands, but I do not remember how I did it. I do remember that then max load went down a little.

I thought I used to put the first cartridge into the rifle and seated the bullet until it stopped but that will be even longer. The rifle is a Remington model 310 that my Nephew won in a drawing. Should I do the easy task of reducing the LOA, keep it where it is, or make it even longer?
I should qualify my load. The 52.5grs load is for a 135gr Sierra MatchKing.

But my max loads for the 130gr bullets aren't far behind in terms of accuracy.

ZM
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Thanks ZM, So your accuracy load for the MatchKing is 52.5 and your max speed loads are faster but almost as accurate. Is that what you mean?
 
guessing speeds

On a "close enough" basis, I divivded 54.3/52.5=1.0342xxxxx Then squared 2790 fps, mulripilied the product by 1..0342xxxxxx and took the square root which equals 2837. Since compression builds exponentially , I am guessing that the 54.3 gr would go ~2840 in ZM's rifle.

I have read that because of freebore and 100 other things, any two rifles of the same barrel length can differ 100 fps with the same load.
 
No disrespect is intended in this post. The .270 Win is my all-time favorite round, and I have read hundreds of pieces regarding the .270 Win in my 30+ years of hunting. I have repeatedly read that 60 grains of H4831, with 210 primer is the premier load, not only for velocity, but more important it is universally billed as the load for consistent accuracy. This load has been established so solidly as the universal load for the 270 Win, that many gun writers has asserted that if your rifle doesn't group with this load, you have a problem with your rifle, not with your load.

Other than trying to develop a reduced-recoil round, I don't understand the rationale for moving away from H4831. For what it is worth, I too have had excellent results from Accurate Arms 3100, which has a very similar burn-rate as H4831. My other concern is that you state that you are not intent on employing the rifle beyond 170 yards. But 170 yards is a considerable distance over which the initial velocity drops considerably. Again, and in closing, I'm not criticizing, I'm trying to understand why any .270 Win user would seek to reduce the velocity to such an extent.
 
Thanks Doc. I started with 4350 because it fits better with other calibers I load. I am goimg to Birmingham and I could get 4831.


I weighed 12 loads yesterday for my handful of empties. One load over poured the case. I then checked my scale and the big weight had moved to the 55 and the little weight was still at 4.3. So, I think I tried to put 59.4 gr in the case. However, I did not look carefully as who cares what a mistake is. It may have been 64.3 gr. I just poured it back and carefully weighed 54.3 for the rest. My question is; is 60 gr of 4831 a compressed load and what, if any, precausions should I take on 60 gr of H4831 and how different is IMR 4831?
 
I tried IMR-4350 just for something to do. Got some nifty cloverleaf groups with the 135gr Matchking. Worked pretty good with Hornady 140gr BT bullets too.

I have since stopped using 4350. No performance reason. Just narrowed down my 270 loads to three instead of eight.

My only powder for the 270 is H4831SC for both 130 and 150gr bullets.

Compression? With H4831? I seat my bullets out to within .020 of the lands. No compressed powder here. M700 action allows for seating the bullet way out there.

Get a drop tube to compress the powder. http://www.sinclairintl.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category=REPMMP&item=FF021&type=store

ZM
 
4350 is my favorite all-around powder for everything from .243 up through my .300 WinMag (.270, .280, .308, .30/06). I have 4 loaders (Dillon RL550, Lee 1000 and 2 old single stage rock chuckers set up with different dies). Digital scale for every rifle load (don't trust the powder droppers) when I'm serious about accuracy. It's slow but after you find the sweet spot for each load, be sure you write it down -- because what shot great in your Sendero may not be the sweet load in your Model 70. Harmonics, etc... just repeating what all hand loaders have found to be true (sorry if I'm boring anybody) but thought someone newer to the hobby might benefit.

Just be happy, with all this terrorist paranoia running rampant, that we can still buy primers and powder.
 
As an FYI, IMR 4831 is not the same as H4831...they are different!

Go for either H4831, or H4831SC. The SC means short-cut grains, but the burn-rate is identical. You can skip right to 60 grains with a 130 grain projectile. You really need to get a reload manual and follow it. The manuals usually list the most common powders per their burn-rate from fastest to slowest. Check the manual for burn-rate correlation.

Be well, be safe.

Doc2005
 
thank you one and all

I will use the can of 4350 I have. I will start at 54.3 for no special reason. If or when I use it up, I will try one of the 4831s discussed.

I seat my bullets out to within .020 of the lands. No compressed powder here. M700 action allows for seating the bullet way out there ZM
Click to expand...

How is this done? I tried it and the bullet was quite long. It fit in the mag well and chamber. It came out with no visible land marks I have measured my overall length at 3.370 for my first cartridge loaded with Sierra 130 gr GameKing, spitzer boatail. How long is too long. Specs says 3.340

I am unsure if the 3.370 cartridge was near the lands of this Remington 310.
 
Originally posted by Doc 2005:
As an FYI, IMR 4831 is not the same as H4831...they are different!
Click to expand...

You Got That Right! Not only that but EVERY gun is different, chamber dimensions, throat ect. That is why you must start low and work up. e.g. I'm currently working up a load for the 130g Sierra ProHunter. The Books says 54 -58g of IMR4831 with the hottest load I should get 3150fps. So I start at 56 and work up in .2 grain increments to 58g.... Well at 56g I was getting 3130fps and nice flat primers but not excessive. 56.2 yielded 3200+ fps real flat primers and some sticky extraction. Needless to say I didn't fire any more. I pulled all the bullets and started from 54.4g and working up to 55.8. Going to the range tomorrow will let you know
 
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This week I shot 40 rounds of 130 gr Rem SP moly, 3.34" with 58 gr IMR4350, and no pressure sign in any rounds in any of the 3 rifles I tested. Quickload predicts this to be 66,000 psi, but becuase all the primers were hard to de cap, I think the pressure is less than 66kpsi.

The highest velocity I got was 3259 fps in 26" barrel.
The lowest velocity I got was 3134 fps in a 22" barrel.
 
Clark:
This week I shot 40 rounds of 130 gr Rem SP moly, 3.34" with 58 gr IMR4350
Click to expand...
interesting and

MSgtEgress: IMR4831 56.2 yielded 3200+ fps real flat primers and some sticky extraction.
Click to expand...

So, one rifle takes 58 gr IMR4350 and the other 56.2 of IMR4831

Looks backwards but that's rifles. Clark, do you seat bullets deeply or have a long throat or large chamber?

I cannot use of wife's Ruger .243 brass in my Savage .243 without full resizing which I do not do much.
 
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