5.56 nato 62gr load info. (M855)

[lx2008]

guys,

i have not really found any data for the above in my current loading manuals.
i have most, hornady`s, sierra, lyman`s , nosler`s. and all are latest editions.

the only thing close is when i use RAMSHOT`S reloading data for TAC.
they sent me an email with nato specs for the 62gr bullet pushing it to about
3,219 fps using 26.2 grs. of TAC.

the latest nosler manual, under their .223 data, they have 60/62 gr. page
( 62gr. being their varmageddon bullet ) but they don`t distinguish the amount
powder in the data for either the 60 or the 62 weight.

do i take it that it does not make a difference since the 2 are so close
in weight? i would think it would? if any of you have the nosler # 7 guide,
would you take a look at that page and see what you make of it. ( page 108 )

also, if you know of any reliable nato data for the m855 bullet, really appreciate your responses.

thanks!

 

[Wildbillz]

Hi lx2008
For what its worth, from TM 43-0001-27 Army Ammunition Data Sheets Small Caliber Ammunition.

http://www.ar15.com/content/webPDF/TM43-0001-27.pdf



Take care and start loading low. Work your way up till you find a good load for your gun.

WB

 

[lx2008]

thanks for the military manual link. just looked at it.

i`ve seen WC 844 in different forums but what is it the same as
for us "civilians"? is BLC-2 OR H-335? is it EXACTLY the same.

i want to be sure before i would begin to work some up.

 

[moxie]

You don't need special NATO 5.56 data.

All you have to do is drive a 62 gr. M855 bullet at ~3000 fps and you have the NATO spec. Just find published .223 data that will do that and you are done.

 

[Wildbillz]

thanks for the military manual link. just looked at it.

i`ve seen WC 844 in different forums but what is it the same as
for us "civilians"? is BLC-2 OR H-335? is it EXACTLY the same.

i want to be sure before i would begin to work some up.

I think "Nether" would be the best answer. 844 is a Canister powder and might be similar to the others but not "Exactly the same".

So if it were me? I would look at buying a jug of WC844 or I would look at bullet weight and FPS. You could use what powder you have that would push a 62grn bullet at the prescribed FPS. Once again I would start low and work my way up.

I don't have any experience with the WC844. But I have used a bit of WC846 which was said to be similar to Win 748 or BLC(2). Looking at the loads using both of those powders I found there was quite a spread. So I opted to use a chronograph and when I got close to the FPS I was looking for (without having any signs of over pressure) I looked for what worked well in my gun and shot reasonably accurately.

Sorry I know its not the cut and dry answer your hoping for.
WB

 

[joustin]

I had 16 lbs of WC844, It's basically H335. Kind of, I used 24.5 grains for the 62 grain milsurp bullet. It's not the same as H335 but close

 

[lx2008]

thanks for the replies

 

[rg1]

WC844 is similar to H335 but may be slower or faster depending on the lot. One lot of WC844 with 62 gr. FMJ M855 bullets I loaded from 24-24.6 grains for velocities from 2925 fps up to 3040 fps at 24.6 grains. You HAVE to work up loads using surplus military powders. The speeds of WC844 vary and different lots of it shows different velocity. Some lots of it I've loaded to 25 grains just to get to 3000 fps. So be careful and work up loads with WC844. Overall lengths for my loads with the M855 62 fmj's are from 2.250-2.260" and I use RP 7 1/2 primers in my loads.
Shooting the M855 62 fmj's in a 20" 1/7 AR using H335 powder I started at 24 grains of H335 and it shows high 2800's to low 2900's fps and at 24.6 grains of H335 it gets 3033 to 3040 fps in my rifle using RP 7 1/2 and RP and WCC cases. So again start low maybe even below 24 grains and work up.

 

[otrman]

You can try to get to the NATO velocity of 3219 fps, but you probably will not get there. I think fear of primer backing out from vibration during transport is the least of the reasons they crimp the primer. WC844 is similar to H335 as others have stated, start low and work up. Using WC844 at 25.6 gr started backing out primers and at 25.8 gr would pop them out of the case and drop them in the lower. Was running right around 3100-3160 fps. Had about the same results with once fired and new brass. Brass fired with that hot of a load will only last a few reloads. Don't worry so much about how fast you can push it but how accurate you can make it. So far all of the most accurate loads I have found are no where near the fastest.

 

[rcmodel]

Crimped primers have nothing at all to do with primers backing out due to vibration during transport.

Military primers are crimped because the ammo may be used in machine guns, or full-auto rifles.

And also because a loose primer blown out into the action due to a bore obstruction or dirt in the bore can stop the gun.

rc

 

[moxie]

otrman,

NATO velocity for the M855 62 gr. bullet is NOT 3219 fps. It's ~3020. You're likely thinking of the 55 gr. bullet, in the M193, which was never adopted by NATO anyway, despite the NATO circle and cross on many headstamps.

 

[Walkalong]

Out of what length barrel?

 

[moxie]

That's why I put the ~ in front of the 3020. The 3020 is the "nominal" velocity out of a 20" (22")barrel, I think. Actual velocity will of course vary with actual gun and barrel length, but it WON'T be close to the 3219 quoted in post #9.

 

[joustin]

I'll say that NATO loads are not all that accurate in my rifle, I'll add that the extra pressure isn't needed in most applications. I buy some NATO level ammo but I don't like loading that hot. The ammo is safe at higher levels but I am cheap and would rather have accurate ammo and longer brass life. A good example is the Mk262 mod 0/1 loads, it can kill the brass on the first shot when someone is trying to replicate it. Loose primer pockets and lots of stretch

 

[lx2008]

i just finished shooting/chrono. my H-335 loads.

i ended up with 25.1grs. averaging 2919fps. no signs of pressure,
primer dimple was normal.

i think i can go probably go 26grs. w/ no problem but i`ll go in
2/10th increments til i get there.

 

[moxie]

On their website, Hodgdon lists 21.4 grs. as MAX for H-335 with a 62 gr. bullet.
You are really pushing it.

See:

http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/rifle

 

[Walkalong]

Speer only goes to 25.0 Grs with a 62 gr bullet in .223.

Where are you getting your data?

 

[ArchAngelCD]

On their website, Hodgdon lists 21.4 grs. as MAX for H-335 with a 62 gr. bullet.
You are really pushing it.

See:

http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/rifle

That data is for a Swift Sirocco bullet but if you look at the 63gr bullet data which is for a Sierra bullet the Max charge is listed @25.0gr H335.

 

[lx2008]

my "bad," guys. i was just re-reading my last post because of what you
just posted. my avg. was not 2919, it was 2991fps. just had my digits mixed up while typing.

i was using nosler`s last edition, the 7th. they were using their
varmageddon 62gr. bullet. and i just went 1/10 over their max
which was 25.0 of h-335. but they apparently were getting 3102 fps.
so i was close to their`s.

 

[moxie]

The Hodgdon 63 gr. load is 25.0 grs. Sierra does list 25.6 as max for a 63 gr. bullet. So that's good.

According to Speer #14 the MAX load is 25.0 grs for a 62 gr. bullet.

So I would say that 25.6 is the max published load for the 62 gr. bullet I can find.

But the OP says he's at 25.1 and wants to go to 26.0, based on lack of pressure signs and primer dimple looking normal. These are not necessarily good indicators of high pressure.

This is, in my opinion, pushing it. Shouldn't go past published data of 3 different respected companies unless you are extremely experienced, and even then with an abundance of caution.

 

[Walkalong]

To want to go to 26.0 Grs based on the primer "dimple" and "no signs of pressure" is indeed pushing it.

 

[moxie]

lx2008,

Per your correction in post #19, you now have 2991 fps which is essentially NATO 5.56 spec of ~3000 fps for the M855, give or take a few fps depending on barrel length, phase of moon, etc., which is what I suggested in post #4.

And you're doing it at 25.1 grs. powder which is within published limits. Now's a good time to stop and declare victory!

 

[bfoosh006]

I may have missed this info... but what barrel length is your rifle ?, what twist ?

And a little more specific info please. Load details,brass ,primer,OAL and rifle details, please.

FWIW... here is some velocities from the 62gr-69gr class of OEM ammo.

62-69gr

Brand and headstamp on brass..............................16 " Velocities ( FPS )........20" Velocities ( FPS ).........Comments......,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, NC means NATO CROSS

AMA, 62gr M855...............NATO AMA 12..........................Av. 2889 , ES 31.........................Av. 3005 , ES 42............ Good accuracy for M855

Carl Gustav..62gr .............NATO 12-CG-10.......................Av. 2944 , ES 30..........................Av. 3044 , ES 56.......... Still not sure what to think of this ammo.
This is the Swed. "Green Bullet" Very long for its weight.

Fed. 62gr XM855............ NATO LC 13...........................Av. 2967 , ES 73.........................Av. 3040 , ES 82........... Typical Milspec 2-3 MOA
Fed. 62gr MSR Fusion .223.....FC 13 223 REM...............Av 2828 ...ES 54.........................Av 2918...ES 34............ Short stroked twice.
Fed. 62 FMJ .223 Lead Core............................................Av. 2739, ES 73..........................Av. 2761, ES 34

FNM 62gr SS109..............FNM 91-1 NC..........................Av. 3009, ES 34..........................Av. 3118, ES 44.............Gawd, I miss cheap surplus

GGG 62gr M855...............NATO, 5.56 13 GGG...............Av. 2930 , ES 62.........................Av. 3028 , ES 66.......... Ok, I expected better accuracy.

Hansen / PPU 62gr ..........IK .223R..................................Av. 3004, ES 67..........................Av. 3153, ES 68............

Hirtenberg 62gr SS109....HP .223 5.56............................Av. 2965, ES 71.......................... Av. 3000, ES 68 ...........

Hotshot 62gr......................................................................Av. 2919, ES 83..........................Av. 3057, ES 70

IMI 62gr M855.................TZZ 89......................................Av. 3008, ES 44 ..........................Av. 3192, ES 23.............Very accurate for M855.
IMI 62gr FMJ5.56............IMI 13 2 digits.......................... Av 2964.....ES 60..........................Av 3077....ES 32 ...........VERY accurate for 62gr M855

PMC XTAC 62gr...............PSD 14...................................Av. 2885, ES 38...........................Av. 3051, ES 48...............Both XTAC rounds have changed my opinion of PMC "A"

Turkish ZQ1 62gr FMJ......................................................Av. 2892, ES 38...........................Av. 3026, ES 55

Winc. 62gr M855 ............WCC 88....................................Av. 2944, ES 76..........................Av. 3058, ES 56.............

Nosler 64gr BSB .223 .....NOSLER 223 REM..................Av. 2511, ES 58...........................Av. 2560, ES 44.............Not super fast, "A" grade for accuracy.

SSA 64gr BSB 5.56........SSA 5.56...................................Av.2572, ES 109..........................Av. 2570, ES 68............. Had to drop the hammer twice on one round in the 20"..... "A+" accuracy.

Winc. 64gr BSB 5.56......WCC 13 5.56MM........................Av 2883... ES 62.........................Av 2978....ES 25............ Very good accuracy and speed.

Ultramax 68gr..................SPLIT NECKS ON ALL except for the ONE FULL NECK SEPARATION.............................Granted this is 15 years old ammo and maybe they are better now ?!

Fed. 69gr GMM................FC 13 223 REM.......................Av. 2585, ES 30............................Av. 2780, ES 32............. Outstanding Accuracy.. "A+"

PPU 69gr 223...................PPU 223 REM.........................Av. 2564, ES 34................................................Av. 2685, ES 80.............."B+" Accuracy


In general, the fastest ammo in the same bullet weight was typically NOT the most accurate.... so speed is not everything.

Accuracy is ( IMHO ) just as important as speed.... finding a load that does both is the real trick.

 

[lx2008]

1x7 twist, wcc brass & other, nato cross marked brass( generic ),
cci small rifle ( 400 i believe ) o.a.l. of 2.26.

rifle- armalite m15 T 20in stainless bull

thanks for the details, nice.