5.56 Nato tracer

[tark]

I stopped by Scheels in Iowa City today and was surprised to see 5.56 Nato tracer ammo for sale. It was in a box marked American Eagle. It is Tracer XM856, 64 grain . Upon opening the box, I was surprised to see the following. The Nato acceptance stamp, a cross in a circle, LC ans 15. It was LAKE CITY and brand new! It had orange tips.

Has anybody else out there ran into this stuff? There is a warning on the box stating that the ammo may start fires. At first I thought it to be Federal, but I can find no manufacture"s name , or address, anywhere on the box.

I snagged ten boxes of 20 each, for 13.95 a box. It shoots just fine in my Mini-14, and I am told that it shouldn't. My mini has a 1-9 twist and I have always heard that a 1-7 is required for the long tracer bullets. (And they are LONG)

What's up? Anybody know anything about this stuff?

 

[alsaqr]

i have thousands of rounds of military M196 tracer ammo. Sometimes fire the stuff after a really good rain.

Be careful; tracer ammo will start fires in dry grass and leaves.

M856 tracer ammo is ballistically matched to the M855 ball round.

 

[SlowFuse]

I have shot at least one thousand M856 reloads over the past few years. I always shoot them in the rain or after a good soaking. They're not the most accurate but that could have something to do with them being pulled surplus, think 3-3.5 inches at 100. As far as the rounds you've described ive never personally seen them.

One of the reasons they're so long is because the base is a hollow cavity that they fill the trace compound in. When reloading I've heard not all powders will light them, I had good success with H355 and stuck with it. Lots of fun at longer ranges, they don't light immediately but after they do they trace to around 300-400 yards.

Edited to add that I shoot them in 1:9 and 1:7 twist with similar results. The 9 twist will stabilize them as far as I have witnessed.

 

[dogtown tom]

tark I stopped by Scheels in Iowa City today and was surprised to see 5.56 Nato tracer ammo for sale. It was in a box marked American Eagle. It is Tracer XM856, 64 grain . Upon opening the box, I was surprised to see the following. The Nato acceptance stamp, a cross in a circle, LC ans 15. It was LAKE CITY and brand new! It had orange tips.

Has anybody else out there ran into this stuff? There is a warning on the box stating that the ammo may start fires. At first I thought it to be Federal, but I can find no manufacture"s name , or address, anywhere on the box.

American Eagle 5.56/.223 is made by at the Lake City plant by Federal. Federal is owned by Vista (as is CCI, Speer, Estate and others). Vista was spun off from ATK.

 

[tark]

That's the only explanation I can find, dogtown tom. I was just astonished that tracer ammo was being allowed for civilian sales. It is illegal in Illinois and California and no doubt many other states.

Other than the fact it is fun to shoot (All the reason you need, I guess) tracer ammo has very few sporting applications, that I can think of.

 

[morcey2]

That's the only explanation I can find, dogtown tom. I was just astonished that tracer ammo was being allowed for civilian sales. It is illegal in Illinois and California and no doubt many other states.

Tracers are legal to possess in Utah, but they can only be fired on a Military range.

Other than the fact it is fun to shoot (All the reason you need, I guess) tracer ammo has very few sporting applications, that I can think of.

If someone would come up with an expanding point tracer round (expanding rounds are required for big game in Utah), it would be just like the Illumi-nock arrows. Just much, much faster. And if it didn't exit, it would start cooking the meat before you even cleaned it.

Matt

 

[dogtown tom]

tark ......I was just astonished that tracer ammo was being allowed for civilian sales. It is illegal in Illinois and California and no doubt many other states.

No Federal law prohibits tracer ammunition.

 

[Carne Frio]

Since they are actually pretty good at starting fires,
I only can use them 6 months a year. They shoot
fine in my AR and AK guns. I purchased them two
years ago, when I was having a hard time finding the
regular stuff.

 

[tark]

I would really like to find some 7.62 tracer. Does anyone know if Federal sells any of that caliber under their American Eagle brand?

I have some 7.62 tracer ammo now, but it is twenty years old and it doesn't always trace. Apparently, it has a shelf life.

 

[ljnowell]

That's the only explanation I can find, dogtown tom. I was just astonished that tracer ammo was being allowed for civilian sales. It is illegal in Illinois and California and no doubt many other states.



Other than the fact it is fun to shoot (All the reason you need, I guess) tracer ammo has very few sporting applications, that I can think of.

Since when are tracers illegal in IL? I know incendiary is but local places around here sell tracers.

 

[gregp74]

That's the only explanation I can find, dogtown tom. I was just astonished that tracer ammo was being allowed for civilian sales. It is illegal in Illinois and California and no doubt many other states.

Other than the fact it is fun to shoot (All the reason you need, I guess) tracer ammo has very few sporting applications, that I can think of.

Wow I didn't know they weren't legal in IL.

I bought my first AR a couple years back right before 556 ammo all but disappeared for a while. I stopped at a shop in the Chicago suburbs and they didn't have much selection but they had a bunch of M196. I bought a few boxes just so I'd have something. Never did shoot the stuff, and there was a sign saying it wasn't for use in their range but they made no mention of legality.

 

[ljnowell]

Wow I didn't know they weren't legal in IL.

I bought my first AR a couple years back right before 556 ammo all but disappeared for a while. I stopped at a shop in the Chicago suburbs and they didn't have much selection but they had a bunch of M196. I bought a few boxes just so I'd have something. Never did shoot the stuff, and there was a sign saying it wasn't for use in their range but they made no mention of legality.

I would be curious to see the law.

 

[Reloadron]

I would be curious to see the law.

You will find IL. in this list. While "tracer" type ammunition is spelled out for some states such as CA. it is not spelled out for IL.

Illinois prohibits the sale, manufacture or acquisition and possession of exploding ammunition.12 “Explosive bullet” means the projectile portion of an ammunition cartridge which contains or carries an explosive charge which will explode upon contact with the flesh of a human or an animal. “Cartridge” means a tubular metal case having a projectile affixed at the front thereof and a cap or primer at the rear end thereof, with the propellant contained in such tube between the projectile and the cap.13

So while IL does spell out explosive bullet they make no mention of tracer type ammunition as a few other states do clearly such as CA. Anyway, for what it's worth the list has some interesting stuff.

I have a few old stripper clips of 5.56 tracer ammunition and never had a desire for more of the stuff. Generally it isn't known as accurate and as was covered if you aren't careful you can start a fire. I can see why many western states under a drought may not appreciate the stuff.

Ron

 

[tark]

I heard that tracer ammo is illegal here in Illinois.... From a cop. I realize now that isn't exactly the best source...... I really don't know for sure. I do know for a fact that it is illegal in California, for obvious reasons. They dry up and turn brown every summer, and this summer was the worst in memory.

 

[ljnowell]

You will find IL. in this list. While "tracer" type ammunition is spelled out for some states such as CA. it is not spelled out for IL.



So while IL does spell out explosive bullet they make no mention of tracer type ammunition as a few other states do clearly such as CA. Anyway, for what it's worth the list has some interesting stuff.

I have a few old stripper clips of 5.56 tracer ammunition and never had a desire for more of the stuff. Generally it isn't known as accurate and as was covered if you aren't careful you can start a fire. I can see why many western states under a drought may not appreciate the stuff.

Ron

So basically illinois law really doesn't make it illegal. It's sold all around here in IL.

 

[Reloadron]

So basically illinois law really doesn't make it illegal. It's sold all around here in IL.

Beats the hell out of me. I can Google as well as the next guy but am far from an authority on Il. State Laws regarding "projectiles" which IL. seems to break ammunition down to. Been reading on Il. laws and they have some peculiar laws regarding guns and ammunition. All said and done, I can't find anything that says tracer ammunition is illegal in Il. They really dislike ammunition that penetrates metal though.

Ron

 

[ljnowell]

Beats the hell out of me. I can Google as well as the next guy but am far from an authority on Il. State Laws regarding "projectiles" which IL. seems to break ammunition down to. Been reading on Il. laws and they have some peculiar laws regarding guns and ammunition. All said and done, I can't find anything that says tracer ammunition is illegal in Il. They really dislike ammunition that penetrates metal though.

Ron

That is fact. Illinois laws have been radically improving though. I look to see suppressors available here in the next few years too.

 

[Hardtarget]

I saw some tracer projectiles at a reload supply shop. They looked longer than I wanted so I passed.

I have a few surplus rounds for .30 carbine. I've had them since...mid '60's. Never even think about shooting those.

Mark

 

[Reloadron]

All the tracer chatter got me to thinking. I found an old (my guess 25 years) package of 25 EC 22 LR Tracer ammo made by a company called All Purpose Ammo Seneca NC. A Google of the name brings up some interesting stuff. I remember years ago selling some of their products and the pest control stuff was like dynamite (literally ) and that brings us to some of their legal problems. The 22 cases have a head stamp that resembles Winchester Super X but it was not made by Winchester. On a wet day I should try this stuff and see if it still works. A real wet day.

Apparently Piney Mountain Ammunition manufactures 22 LR tracer ammunition but I can't find any in stock at their distributors.

Ron

 

[FROGO207]

I was told that the Piney Mountain was a custom run that was done every so many years. Might be hard pressed to do this by the manufacturer if they are running 3 shifts for their own product. I imagine it will reappear when things slow down a bit.

My .224 tracer bullets will shoot with the same accuracy as like length bullets in my mini 14 rifles and NEF Handi Rifles. My rifles are all the newer barrels with either 1-9 or 1-7 twist as well.

On another note I purchased a large lot .224 tracer bullets a few years ago because they were about 1/2 the cost of 55 grain FMJ at the time. Another time the .308 tracer bullets I bought were even less money. IIRC I paid only shipping plus the going rate of the 50 CAL ammo can the tracers were shipped to me in. The tracer pills were almost free as the guy just wanted to get rid of a bunch of pulls he had on hand. I still have about 2 ammo cans of them left to reload.

Be aware that they require different loads as others have stated in posts above as they are longer for their weight and thus have less case volume inside when loaded. Also they will light better with the tracer specific (sticky) military propellant they were originally loaded with. Using this I get a 80% light up rate on all my tracer pulls I reload. Pats reloading was selling that pulldown propellant having regular military propellant numbers with a "T" at the end.

 

[wild cat mccane]

Also from Utah.

Therefore, you and I both know that Utah has had recent huge and VERY expensive to the tax payer wild fires thanks to tracer rounds. (Hit it up on google news before you call bs)

I for one say the heck with that crap. It's not worth my tax money, forests, other's property, or my fire fighters.

 

[Hondo 60]

Has anybody else out there ran into this stuff?

Yup, I've shot hundreds of rounds.
Probably not good for the barrel, AFAIK it has white phosphorous.
A very good cleaning is in order after shooting this stuff.

But be careful as Tracer rounds are illegal in some communist states like California.

 

[SlowFuse]

They do make tracer rounds, piney mountain. I have a few boxes of both the red and green variety.

 

[Jeff White]

Tracers are NOT illegal in Illinois. I don't care if you read it on some non-official website or if a cop told you they were. Cops are often misinformed about the actual law just like most laymen. I should know because I was a cop in Illinois for 25 years.

Here is the law, taken directly from the Illinois General Assembly's Official website.

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilc...hapterID=53&SeqStart=68200000&SeqEnd=71400000

(720 ILCS 5/24-2.1) (from Ch. 38, par. 24-2.1)
Sec. 24-2.1. Unlawful use of firearm projectiles.
(a) A person commits the offense of unlawful use of firearm projectiles when he or she knowingly manufactures, sells, purchases, possesses, or carries any armor piercing bullet, dragon's breath shotgun shell, bolo shell, or flechette shell.
For the purposes of this Section:
"Armor piercing bullet" means any handgun bullet or handgun ammunition with projectiles or projectile cores constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper or depleted uranium, or fully jacketed bullets larger than 22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25% of the total weight of the projectile, and excluding those handgun projectiles whose cores are composed of soft materials such as lead or lead alloys, zinc or zinc alloys, frangible projectiles designed primarily for sporting purposes, and any other projectiles or projectile cores that the U. S. Secretary of the Treasury finds to be primarily intended to be used for sporting purposes or industrial purposes or that otherwise does not constitute "armor piercing ammunition" as that term is defined by federal law.
The definition contained herein shall not be construed to include shotgun shells.
"Dragon's breath shotgun shell" means any shotgun shell that contains exothermic pyrophoric mesh metal as the projectile and is designed for the purpose of throwing or spewing a flame or fireball to simulate a flame-thrower.
"Bolo shell" means any shell that can be fired in a firearm and expels as projectiles 2 or more metal balls connected by solid metal wire.
"Flechette shell" means any shell that can be fired in a firearm and expels 2 or more pieces of fin-stabilized solid metal wire or 2 or more solid dart-type projectiles.

As you can see, it doesn't mention tracers at all.

I'm really surprised that some members are reporting good results with M856 out of 1/9 twist barrels. It was the long M110 tracer bullet that is used in the NATO tracer round that forced the adoption of the 1/7 twist as the NATO standard back in 1982 or 83.

 

[tark]

Thanks for the clarification, Jeff. I'll not listen to any more cops about the subject of illegal ammo!

But, after reading your post, I guess I better hide my tungsten cored, black tipped, FN headstamped AP ammo for my M-1. It doesn't stick to a magnet, so I assume it is tungsten and not hardened steel.