5 dogs severely maul deputy; 3 Dogs shot in incident

[Chugach]

A friendly, but hyper, German Shephard came through my yard one day when I still lived with my parents. He started grabbing the end of a branch that I had in my hand. I tried to keep it away from him, and I simply couldn't. His reflexes were about twice as good as mine, and he was prancing and dancing so much that I could never have touched him even if I had wanted. That was a very sobering realization for me.

Matt G has some real valid concerns that are local-LEO and community related. As a non-LEO, I'd opt for the handgun solution if I couldn't escape. A swing and an miss with a baton or flashlight could put you off balance and with your face or arm much closer to attack.

I'd opt for the "stand-off" weapon, especially if there was more than one...

 

[Edward429451]

much less common courtesy?

Sounds like it was a courtesy call. They wasn't serving a warrant on the wrong address. It was in response to a residential house alarm. They didn't pull em over on the highway and shoot thier dog. Fair is fair.

The homeowner definitly erred by not making the call and then leaving, through oversight or laziness?

The lady cop should be chewed out by the chief (no pun intended) when she gets better. Lone lady cop on a possible burglary in progress, wont call for backup or at least pick up a shotgun? Sounds pretty dumb to me.
I'm not beatin up on the lady, I just think she made a bigger mistake than the homeowner cause she knew the dangerous nature of her job and failed to be properly prepared. Or is that SOP for lone lady cops to do Burglary in progress calls alone?

I actually agree with 12-34hom on what he said also. Thats a reasonable response to thinking about going up against 5 dogs. Anybody's got the right to defend themselves, it just the pre-emptive or unnecesarry incidents that stink. So I'll give you this one. But where was her backup?

 

[Molly]

I would have shot those dogs in a heartbeat. OK, so dogs doing their job, officer doing hers. Kudos to both parties, however officer is a human, and humans are above dogs in the circle of life, so doggies die. Sorry doggies. I like dogs, I like to pet them and play with them, I even had one for a long time. But I can't stand to see any human hurt or mauled by a domestic animal. We humans aren't allowed to just maul or kill someone merely for "checking our premises" and the same should apply to dogs (notwithstanding kicking in your door, breaking through a window, verablizing or brandishing immediate harm, of course). Humans (most) have the born-in ability to assess a situation and administer or restrain their reaction appropriately, according to reasoning, hueristics, and logic. But somehow, everyone seems to think its ok that we surround ourselves with dogs in our society, who obviously can't, and therefor accidents like this happen.

 

[Keith]

I agree that the homeowner in this case was in the wrong and that the cop in question had every right to shoot the dogs to defend herself - it's just too bad she didn't.

My reply was to the cop who stated that no dog will ever bite him while he's "wearing a uniform". As if wearing a badge gives him the right to act like a complete maniac.

We've seen way to many cases of cops shooting pets for no reason whatsoever. I for one, feel that if somebody draws a gun and begins shooting pets on private property they are exhibiting behavior that justifies lethal force by the property owner. Nobody in their right mind would enter the yard of a (presumably) armed citizen and commit an act so calculated to enrage people, unless they are insane or very stupid and reckless with a gun. Either reason is justification for self defense.

This all goes back to the teaching of cops to shoot the pets on no-knock warrants, as a presumed risk. And a lot of people are simply too stupid to separate when the act is appropriate from when it isn't. A balanced individual doesn't walk into somebodies yard and shoot the beagle because it growls at him.

Keith

 

[Keith]

See how emotions flare when a dog gets shot ?

Well, that's my point, exactly! When you shoot somebodies dog before their eyes (as has happened in several well publicized cases of late) you are opening a very bad door if the owner of the dog is armed and takes the action as evidence of insanity rather than just stupidity.

And I'm sure you're right, that most cops would never do something like this unless they were genuinely at risk.

But there are also complete idiots in the profession who don't seem to recognize that wearing a uniform doesn't make them god, and it sure doesn't make them bullet-proof! If you don't want to start a gun fight, don't draw a gun and begin shooting at peoples pets or children.

Keith

 

[Edward429451]

My reply was to the cop who stated that no dog will ever bite him while he's "wearing a uniform". As if wearing a badge gives him the right to act like a complete maniac.

Maybe not. When he replied, I'd bet money he had just ran the scenario of 5 dogs attacking him thru his mind. Whats he supposed to say?

I dislike police abuses as much as the next guy and am pretty vocal about it. We as citizens have as much responsibility to maintain discipline and fairness towards them as we charge them to have towards us (at least until they start acting like maniacs! ) Anything less would be bad form and detrementil to credibility, I think.

I didn't really hear the man speaking unreasonably, considering the topic.

 

[c_yeager]

Heads strikes on a dog might not be as effective as people think. Dogs have REALLY thick skulls i really doubt that any of the large bread dogs would get dropped with a single strike to the noggin. And frankly thats a hell of a lot closer than i want to get to a dog. If im armed with only a baton and am attacked by a dog i think it would be better to go for the muzzle or the nose. Those are VERY sensitive places for a dog and MIGHT be enough to deter the animal. Of course a determined enough dog would probably not even notice. Animals are a lot different from people. They dont really think ahead. They dont stop for a moment and think "gee i just got hit with something really hard, if i dont cut this out im going to get messed up". Dogs tend to get into "berserker mode" really easily. A lot of times they wont stop until there is no life left in their bodies.

 

[IRONFIST]

When I was a youngster, the next-door neighbors Pit bull got loose. He had trained it to fight(we had reported this waste of tissue many time to no avail). It had grabbed a slightly smaller dog and literally started killing it by inches. Savoring every bite and crunch. I came out after hearing the screams of the smaller dog as did a couple neighbors from down the street. Police were called when we couldnt get the Pits teeth out of the throat of the smaller dog. Single cop showed up, tried to disengage the Pit to no avail. I am bawling now, so is one of the bystanders. The cop pulled his baton and slapped the pit on the back of the head. No response. Another hit, harder this time. Nothing. He started pounding that dog on the back of the skull, big over-the-head, double-handed smashing hits. I can remember the "thunking" sound as he worked over that dog. I swear to all that is sacred, that Pit stood there WAGGING its frigging stump of a tail and making little groans as he was beat senseless. The cop finally stopped and with a flushed, upset face screamed at all of us to get in our houses and stay there. I dashed back to my house and had just shut the front door when I heard a sharp bang like a car backfire, and then 2 more. I found out later from another neighbor who kept watching that after everyone had run to their homes, the Pit finally killed the smaller dog and had started walking towards the cop. He tried to nudge it back with his baton, but the dog kept walking stiff-legged towards him. He opened fire and shot it 3 times in the chest. I dont blame the cop, I would have done the same. I dont blame the Pit, because fighting and killing was all it knew. I blame the idiot trailer-trash who ruined a fine dogs life and started the whole drama. I like Pits and have owned a couple of the years. Best dog I ever owned was a Pit and If I would have had to save his life over some folks I know... the dog would be here today with me and they would be in the ground. That all being said, if a large aggressive dog comes at me or mine and I cant retreat... he is going to die in the most efficient manner possible.

Michael

 

[Jim March]

OK. Here's what's going on with a dog's skull. It is in many ways seriously tougher than a human skull to impacts (as with Ironfist's pit bull story) yet WEAKER when faced with knife stabs to the top of the head.

The skull shape is totally unlike a human's, hence the confusion.

There is a strong central "ridge" in the skull, centered, running front/back. This "ridge" is why you can beat the thing over the head with a baton, shovel or similar and it will hardly notice. The ridge is the connecting point to muscles that go left and right from there, down the sides of the face and connect with (and assist) the jaw muscles. Next time you're near a strong yet friendly dog, feel the area at the top of the skull either side of the ridge, and it'll be clear you're feeling muscle.

As that pit bull's jaws clamped, these muscles were "bulged up" and provided extra "padding" for the entire top of the skull. That's the other reason the baton was an utter failure.

But here's the weakness: on either side of that central ridge, the skull plates are very thin. A downwards strike with the point of a knife will cleave right through those muscles and penetrate the thin skull areas, letting the knife punch straight through to the brain. Even if you hit the central ridge, it will "scoop" the tip of the knife sideways towards a weak spot, which the tip will then penetrate into the brain.

The human skull has a much more uniform thickness, and stabbing through the skull is generally more difficult (although NOT impossible).

Now, all that said, in my opinion the better solution against a dog if your weapon is a knife, is to crouch low, keep the knife back in a point-forward grip (Saber or Asian/FMA style) and stab for the side of the neck, edge towards the dog's spine - and once in, twist hard and vicious, to the point of flipping it on it's back if possible. And just keep cutting. Multiple dogs - same thing, except twist the edge to where it's away from the spine and twist/rip the knife clear for the next dog. With more than one dog, you're going to get bit. Keep fighting.

The BEST non-firearm weapon for use on a dog is a big, heavy khukuri in the 18" range. Just use massive overhand chops across the spine for an instant stop. This has been successfully performed on BEARS up to 200lbs.

 

[longbeard]

Inexperienced officer?

I don't know all the facts of the case, but I can't help but think that the officer might have prevented this situation from occurring.

LEO gets a call to investigate a burglar alarm. (I would venture to guess that the vast majority of these calls end up being false alarms). LEO arrives on site, gets out of her car and finds five large dogs on the property, yet she still enters the property to investigate? After seeing five large dogs guarding the property, there was still some question as to whether the house was being burglarized? Couldn’t she have surveyed the property from the safety of a neighbor’s yard to see if anything was amiss? Why not talk to neighbors first to 1). see if the dogs were friendly 2). to ask if they saw/heard anything unusual 3). Ask where the property owners work so they could be contacted

Certainly, the property owners share a lot of the responsibility for 1). not calling in the false alarm
and 2). For not having that type of dog(s) secured behind a chain link fence where it isn’t so easy for someone to walk right up to them and get bitten/attacked.

And what about the alarm company? They don’t contact the property owner when an alarm gets activated?

 

[c_yeager]

Your assuming that the dogs were visible prior to entering the property. I doubt that anyone in their right mind would willingly enter a yard that they knew was patroled by FIVE pitbulls.

 

[longbeard]

Maybe, but did she stop to talk to the landscapers at the end of the driveway first? Wouldn't they have told her about the dogs?

 

[greyhound]

Longbeard-

though I am not a cop, my best friend is, and therefore I spend a lot of time around police officers, and I can vouch that at least in his department having to answer these "false alarms" is the number 1 complaint. Seems like it happens to every officer at least 2-3 times per shift. That would seem to lead to not taking them seriously, which may have had something to do with why the officer didn't have out her shotgun, etc. Though it would seem that wether or not it was a false alarm one should always be prepared for aggresssive dogs.

The false alarm problem is so bad around here that fines are handed out for multiple false alarms (and I would bet this is true elsewhere).

 

[longbeard]

Greyhound,

That's kinda my point. Knowing that this was most likely a false alarm, why go into a situation where dogs are roaming around unrestrained? It's been pointed out that she may not have known about the dogs, and that may very well be the case. But with five of them running around I would think at least one of them would have been visible. At the very least, I would think that the landscapers would have known about the dogs and informed her of them. Something about the situation just sounds odd to me.

I'll admit, my comments are jaded by the fact that this was a young 24 yr old officer with only 1.5 years experience. It may be that she did everything exactly right, and nothing could have been done to prevent the attack, I'm just wondering out loud.

 

[IM4RMEF]

c_yeager-
I agree on the absurdity of entering a yard with 5 dogs but
they were American Bulldogs not Pittbulls. The ABDs are generally larger with slightly less endurance and agility hence better suited to holding livestock than fighting. Not that they would be any easier to handle in an attack!

I just hate to see breeds stereotyped. Every attack results in people jumping on an anti "X" bandwagon. How many of us could name or recognize the 400+ breeds in the world?
Is every attack caused by a Rott or Pittbull-it seems like it in the media. (Just like "assault weapons" or 50 cal rifles)
An LEO friend of mine wanted to do away with Rottweilers after the woman was killed in CA. (She was killed by Presas NOT Rotts) but.. "he saw the pictures-yep, they were Rottweilers"

I just hated for the Pittbulls to get any more bad press. They get enough of it that is deserved-no use shoveling more on them.

I feel that the owners of the house were at fault for not reporting the alarm. The deputy and dogs both did their jobs.

 

[Matt G]

Edward429451 asked:

Or is that SOP for lone lady cops to do Burglary in
progress calls alone?

No, it's not S.O.P. for cops(without regard to their sex) to go to confirmed Burglary calls alone. Thing is, experience tells us that over 99% of all alarms are false. I've never responded to a home burglary alarm to actually find a burglary in progress, and trust me-- I've been to a LOT of residential alarm calls.

It is SOP for a cop to respond to a residential alarm and check out the perimeter to see if there are any obviously open doors or windows. When an entry point is found unsecure, backup is called, and an interior search is made. Especially with semi-rural or rural county officers, this is how its done. There's just not typically the manpower to send two units to every alarm call, when the odds are far in favor of it being false. Every once in awhile it gets a little exciting, but hey, that's the job, I guess.

Several times, I've come to a house where I found that the fenced back yard held a rather indignant large dog or dogs, and could see that the back door was standing open or ajar. After attempting to make entry to the back yard and receiving a firm rebuke from the back yard dog, I've said,"Hey-- this back door is far more secure than if it were locked with NO dog guarding it. Call it secured, 'No Fault'. 10-8." No sense in inviting more trouble, when you've got affirmative evidence that no one else is there that shouldn't be. The way I read this particular incident, the deputy got out and started to check before being set upon by the dogs. Perhaps they weren't aware of her, or her of them, until she came around the back of the house. Then she attempted to return to her car as she was being attacked.

To those of y'all that think she blew it by not opening fire earlier, remember Keith, here. Recognize that he and people like him are a vocal portion of the public that MUST not be discounted. They're citizens.

To those of y'all who think that the correct answer to this situation is OBVIOUS, read back all the opinions posted here. It's hard to find any two that are alike. There's personal safety, departmental policy, public opinion, civil law, criminal law, personal sense of duty, etc, etc... to respond to. NOT checking on an alarm would be to fail to respond to a dispatched call. Sometimes NOT shooting a dog is to fail to do one's duty. Sometimes actions that clearly would be the appropriate response, without witnesses or tape to document what occured, are just not worth taking, due to the civil response inevitable. Note: I'm not complaining-- I'm just saying that the answer to this kind of situation is not plainly obvious.

Longbeard asked:

And what about the alarm company? They don’t contact the property owner when an alarm gets activated?

They're supposed to try. They tend to wait a little while before doing so, so that they don't get one of those situations where the homeowner beats the cop to the house, and the cop shoots the homeowner. (This happened in McKinney, TX in a tragedy.) Also, people tend to give a single number to the alarm monitoring company, with no backup number, and then fail to update it. Friends, please give them ALL your contact numbers in descending priority, and update them often. Also, double check that the number you give them to call when there is an alarm is the correct dispatch number-- I can't tell you how many times my patrol cell phone will ring with alarm calls (they should come through Dispatch, not to the P.D. line), for a call in the next town over or in the County, for an address that has my city's zip code. Bad planning. Make SURE they know to call you in the instace of an alarm, and call them or your PD Dispatch (non-emergency) line back to find out what happened if you can't respond to your house right away.

 

[TheeBadOne]

Damn credible post Matt G

 

[Coronach]

Yeah, what Matt just said.

one lady cop on a possible burglary in progress, wont call for backup or at least pick up a shotgun? Sounds pretty dumb to me.
I'm not beatin up on the lady, I just think she made a bigger mistake than the homeowner cause she knew the dangerous nature of her job and failed to be properly prepared. Or is that SOP for lone lady cops to do Burglary in progress calls alone?

Our SOP is one officer on a Burglary alarm. If you see anything fishy, call for another officer. Of course, if another officer is free, he will volunteer to go along if he is a good cop. I work with a lot of good cops, so the most common thing you hear on the radio after the knuckleheaded dispatcher sends a singleton is "Ma'am, if you're not holding anything else, I'll go with him on that alarm." The vast majority of alarms are false, but every now and then there is the real one, and that is the one that will kill you. I've gone on a couple that were actual burglaries, but we did not arrive in time to actually catch anyone. Remember that when you see those stupid-arsed Brinks commercials.

I strongly suspect that the dogs were not visible from the officer's vantage point prior to entering the yard. Believe me, no one wants to shoot a homeowner's dog, and no one wants to willingly enter a back yard containing 5 bulldogs. One of the first things you learn to do is to jiggle the back gate, whistle once, and look for clues like doghouses, food bowls, land mines (if you follow me) and chains. Once you observe a pack of dogs in the back yard, we are allowed by SOP to declare the rear of the building secured and proceed about our tasks.

War Story:

I'm dispatched with another officer on a burglary alarm in the High Rent area of my precinct. We arrive at this veritable mansion of a house, and we both pick a direction to check the perimeter. I end up going around by the garages and immediately find an open door. I mark on radio that we have an unsecured door, and I push it open, announce my presence, and do a quick peek. I can see that it is a completely empty garage, no hiding places for bad guys, and there is an interior door to the house, closed. I proceed through, go up to the interior door, and try the knob.

Unlocked. Darn.

At this point I hear my backup jogging back around the front to assist me, so I swing the interior door open, step aside, announce my presence, and start to take a quick peek-

-and am immediately confronted by the largest and most startled German Shephard I have ever seen.

Hmmm.

We have a little mexican stand off for a moment where we're both just looking at each other, him eyeing me steadily with his ears up, tail motionless, and expression unsure, and me doing much the same in response, with the sights of my .45 aimed at his head. About this time I'm noting that the door swung inward and there is no way I can reach it to pull it closed without really getting close to the dog. And its also an uncomfortably long way out of this garage.

Me: "Hey buddy! How ya doin? You sure are a purty dog."

Him: GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!

Well, standing there will not accomplish anything, backing up will probably get him to chase me, so I do the only thing I can...I start forward, gun first, yelling "BACK! GET BACK!" and I get ready to deliver my very best soccer kick to the mutt's head if he decides to add pork to tonight's menu.

The dog retreats, I slam the door, and hear my backup belly laughing. "You sound like you're going up against the Hit-Man. 'Get back! get back! Quit resisting!'"

*sigh*

Well, that house was unable to be secured, but I'm quite confident that no burglar made it out alive.

Mike

 

[Keith]

To those of y'all that think she blew it by not opening fire earlier, remember Keith, here. Recognize that he and people like him are a vocal portion of the public that MUST not be discounted. They're citizens.

I believe that in each and every one of my posts I've stated that in THIS case the officer would have been perfectly justified in shooting the dogs. She had a de-facto INVITATION onto the property once that alarm summoned her. If you invite someone onto your property only to be attacked by your animals, they have every right to respond with lethal force.
I also have no problem with cops (or anyone else) who shoot a dog running loose and acting in a threatening manner.
Dog owners have a responsibility to keep their animals on their property. They also have a responsibility to keep them under control when inviting someone onto their property.

My problem with cops shooting dogs is with the idiots who enter property uninvited (to check something "suspicious") and then shoot your dogs for doing exactly what they are supposed to do - a scenario that happens all of the time. A few months ago we saw the case where a cop let a small dog out of the car on a simple traffic stop (despite the family asking several times for the cop to close the door so the dog wouldn't jump out on the busy highway). The dog finally comes out, barks at the cop and gets shot!

If I entered my neighbors yard for some reason (even a very good reason) and end up shooting his dogs, the first cop to arrive would arrest me. Do we have two laws - one for cops and one for the rest of us?

Keith

 

[Edward429451]

To those of y'all that think she blew it by not opening fire earlier, remember Keith, here. Recognize that he and people like him are a vocal portion of the public that MUST not be discounted. They're citizens.

How utterly considerate and realistic of you Matt, Kudos for that. I'm pretty much with Keith in his bitterness over abuses, having experianced them firsthand. I still try to see past the uniform first and see the human though, as I feel its the right thing to do. Circumstances and respondant behavior can either kill the way or pave the way to better relations in general and should be something we strive for. We must all watch what we say, lest the us vs them mentality is propagated needlessly.

I hope I didn't sound sexist towards the lady cop (I'm old school in that regard), but Being neither criminal, or LEO, I didn't think that most alarms are false alarms, so I understand what you're saying there.

It must take a very special kind of (wo) man towant to be a cop.

 

[jato]

Wow! These threads make me nervous. Shotgun response :

In 10 years of law enforcement, I have only seen 1 alarm call where someone was caught red handed. %99 are false. On my department we answer alarm calls alone. I usually do not speak the same language as the landscapers at the end of the driveway. I do not trespass on private property; I only go into yards when I am invited or responding to a call (invited by someone else). I do not go into yards when there is a chance I will be attacked by a dog (unless a human life is in danger). Dogs are animals and do not deserve the same respect as human life. If ANYTHING attacks me (with edged weapons (teeth) for that matter), I will respond with greater force and stop the attack. I agree with MATT G.

I shot a dog that attacked me on an alarm call. I was attacked within about two seconds of seeing the dog for the first time coming around a corner. I was not harmed and the 100-pound German Sheppard was stopped 5 feet from me and died with two of my .40 rounds in his spine/back area. Flame away! I don't care! Most of you would have done exactly the same thing. If not, then ask yourself why you carry a gun in the first place. This site, for the most part, is not about hunting and target practice. It's about the BORs and the right to self defense!

I feel better now.

 

[Quartus]

I think it may have been more appropriate in this case for the officer to forgo the baton and spray, and go straight to the pistol. We are talking 5 dogs at once here.

Yup. We're talking lethal threat. And the officer wasn't trespassing. She was investigating an alarm. She get's paid to do that, and entering the property in question is a necessary part of doing that job. Now, if she was AWARE of the 5 dogs before going on the property, she's just brain dead. But it's really not hard to imagine an officer going into a fenced back yard and only THEN finding 5 angry dogs. At which point the scramble is on.



On another note, did it seem to anyone else that the cheif went waaaaay over backwards to talke about how tough this cop is? Seemed a bit overdone to me.... "Too much thou dost protest!"

 

[Matt G]

did it seem to anyone else that the cheif went waaaaay over backwards to talke about how tough this cop is? Seemed a bit overdone to me....

No...? He (Blankenship) described in some detail the rather vicious nature of her wounds, and then said, "The deputy is under medication right now. She's a tough officer. She's one of our best." That's pretty much a sheriff explaining the situation, giving his backing to his deputy, and making clear that just because his deputy will make a full recovery, that doesn't mean the injuries weren't serious. I thought it was a pretty good tone.

 

[Erik]

Beat one dog attacking me? Sure, why not?

Five? Hell no.

Glad she made it. Give those boys ribbons or something.

 

[Azrael256]

I'm just saying that the answer to this kind of situation is not plainly obvious.

I have to disagree. When a bunch of angry dogs set upon you, you fight like hell until something (hopefully not you) is dead. I don't know what the legal consequences of such actions may be, and it obviously varies widely by situation, but I really don't care. I'd rather be wrong than dead right.