$5000 shotguns
- Thread starter MattB000
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News Shooter
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I tried writing a response
But decided this would be better. This is a $3K Rizzini
Engraving
Wood
Fit
Feel
Balance
Quality
But decided this would be better. This is a $3K Rizzini
Engraving
Wood
Fit
Feel
Balance
Quality
JohnBT
Member
And this is a new Remington that didn't sell for $300-and-something.
The answer is attention to detail. The quality of the material and the fit of the parts.
A $2400 Guerini Woodlander 28 ga. O/U:
Where's that thread on expensive shotguns?
John
The answer is attention to detail. The quality of the material and the fit of the parts.
A $2400 Guerini Woodlander 28 ga. O/U:
Where's that thread on expensive shotguns?
John
JohnBT
Member
Here's one of the expensive shotgun threads. Some of the pictures that were posted are still available: www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=195294&highlight=rizzini
For $50k and up you can get a working gun that's a work of art as well. From David McKay Brown:
For $50k and up you can get a working gun that's a work of art as well. From David McKay Brown:
RNB65
Member
Lower dollar guns are forged then mass fabricated using CNC machines with just the absolute minimum amount of hand fitting needed to get the parts to fit together. They typically feature plain wood stocks and little or no engraving on the receivers.
High dollar guns are forged then completely hand fitted. With a hand fitted gun you get much more metal on metal contact which evenly spreads recoil energy around and results in a more durable gun. Toss in custom fitted stock, high grade wood and fancy custom engraving and the cost goes through the roof in a hurry.
p.s. $5000 is pretty cheap for a high end shotgun. An English made Purdey SxS will cost you $50,000+. Even a standard Krieghoff K80 sporting clays gun is $10,000+.
High dollar guns are forged then completely hand fitted. With a hand fitted gun you get much more metal on metal contact which evenly spreads recoil energy around and results in a more durable gun. Toss in custom fitted stock, high grade wood and fancy custom engraving and the cost goes through the roof in a hurry.
p.s. $5000 is pretty cheap for a high end shotgun. An English made Purdey SxS will cost you $50,000+. Even a standard Krieghoff K80 sporting clays gun is $10,000+.
Smitty in CT
Member
You can spend more than $5,000 on the wood alone......
Smitty
Smitty
00-Guy
Member
MattB000,
Welcome. New Guy buys the beer.
The following thread will give you some of your answers:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=197395
It is from back in the spring.
Paul
Welcome. New Guy buys the beer.
The following thread will give you some of your answers:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=197395
It is from back in the spring.
Paul
rkh
member
For that kind of money you get a pretty wood stock and some sort of bucolic engraving.
There's no quantum leap in performance over low-dollar models, and unless you're an Olympic competitor, having the smoothest action on the block isn't going to improve your shooting.
There's no quantum leap in performance over low-dollar models, and unless you're an Olympic competitor, having the smoothest action on the block isn't going to improve your shooting.
The Deer Hunter
Member
My $400 Wingmaster works fine.
While I agree with the spirit of the above (rkh), it doesn't always work that way. There's something to be said for paying more for a shotgun that works well, shoots straight, and operates reliably than 200 dollar Wal Mart junk. But I fail to see much reason to pay even more for one that has doily patterns engraved all over it, fancy metalwork and woodwork that will devalue if scratched, or a back story involving some Welsh nobleman or other beyond "because I can." Which is a good enough reason for anything, but not one I'll engage in on this front.
Besides, you could buy a 1000 dollar shotgun instead, still have an outstanding chunk of firearm, and spend the remaining 4000 bucks on clays and ammo.
Besides, you could buy a 1000 dollar shotgun instead, still have an outstanding chunk of firearm, and spend the remaining 4000 bucks on clays and ammo.
Consider a car. Something with just the basics and no style will get you where you are going. But there is a lot of pleasure just in driving something much nicer. You still get from A to B in some amount of time but the trip was just a lot more enjoyable. I see it the same with a shotgun. There is more enjoyment for many in shooting a piece of art even if you don't shoot it any better than the old beater Stevens double you bought at a pawn shop. The feel, looks, balance,.....,everything about it makes it more fun.
Also the laws of supply and demand - you have a small, world-famous custom shop which has been in business for a few hundred years. You have a limited number of gunsmithing artists whose skills are in such high demand that there's a waiting-list for years... charge whatever you want 
In my opinion there are two types of 5k+ shotguns. Type I are the extraordinarily incredible wood and engraving that are fitted for the customer and meticulously manufactured. Type II shotguns are made for competitors that will put hundreds of thousands of rounds through them and still have them function as well as the day they were new. I was watching a skeet video by Todd Bender and he's been shooting the same Kriegoff (sp?) for 30 years now. I don't know for sure, but I'll bet he puts at least 50,000 rounds a year through his gun. When you consider that he's probably never had a breakdown or serious malfunction with his gun, the $10k he probably spent on it seems like a decent price. How many cars can you spend $10k on and drive 200,000 miles a year and still have them shiny and new in 30 years?
For the record, my most expensive gun is a $1850 Over Under I use for skeet and sporting clays. If I was to get a lifetime over/under I'd probably pick up the base line Blaser F3 for about $5k, no engraving, decent wood, but it's put together very well.
For the record, my most expensive gun is a $1850 Over Under I use for skeet and sporting clays. If I was to get a lifetime over/under I'd probably pick up the base line Blaser F3 for about $5k, no engraving, decent wood, but it's put together very well.
RNB65
Member
Nothing last forever. Something little like a spring can break at any time on the most expensive shotguns. And even Krieghoff's wear out around 250,000 rounds or so. That's when it goes back to Krieghoff for a rebuild. It will come back as good as new.
scrat
Member
one of the best in the world. most expensive too.
http://www.hollandandholland.com/home.htm
http://www.hollandandholland.com/sh..." /></a>&md5=1cdbaf7c14759408fac0140e79d3d05f
London price 63005, so whats the conversion to U.S. dollars
http://www.hollandandholland.com/home.htm
http://www.hollandandholland.com/sh..." /></a>&md5=1cdbaf7c14759408fac0140e79d3d05f
London price 63005, so whats the conversion to U.S. dollars
way out of my league, I appreciate it immensely. Hot rod guns with the price of a luxury car or a real hot rod. I'm a jeep guy, none of this fancy stuff on the spartan jeep trail, these guns deserve better than that.Cool stuff, love the craftsmanship as a former woodworker, and appreciate the art in the engraving. It would be tough to clean the muck out of it for sure. Still, not my thing, I live in the PNW and hunt out of a CJ7 in the rain and muck frequently, and miles of dust and bumpy roads on good summer days.
Shotguns are nice as works of art and function in the regards that field and clays guns can be in service for decades and not show much wear, if any, with simple care. Not so much from my bumpy jeep in those places few other rigs make it on the rainy days in the PNW. I own a few stainless guns on that note.
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sure, some like wingmasters, but it is like KIA vs BMW vs Ferrari.
A kia will get you to work just fine.
A BMW will make driving to the club more fun.
A Ferrari will make driving to your estate home that much nicer....
And the points about looks vs function are there as well as the function vs enjoyment.
A kia will get you to work just fine.
A BMW will make driving to the club more fun.
A Ferrari will make driving to your estate home that much nicer....
And the points about looks vs function are there as well as the function vs enjoyment.
brentwal
Member
But the guy in the Kia is a better driver.
rkh
member
I disagree with the car analogy. A high-end sports car opens up a world of motorsports that is simply inaccessable to cheesebox economy coupe owners.
While I don't competitively shoot shotguns, I would be surprised to learn that the competitive edge provided by a Krieghoff relative to a Wingmaster is in any way comparable to that of a Ferrari over a Renault.
A more appropriate comparison would be... say... any car versus a riced-out example of the same make and model. They both get you to where you want to go in the same amount of time, but the spinning rims, enormous spoiler, carbon hood, underlit chassis and other bling found on the latter demonstrates that its owner not only has a large amount of disposable income, but also (and perhaps more importantly) that he has game.
While I don't competitively shoot shotguns, I would be surprised to learn that the competitive edge provided by a Krieghoff relative to a Wingmaster is in any way comparable to that of a Ferrari over a Renault.
A more appropriate comparison would be... say... any car versus a riced-out example of the same make and model. They both get you to where you want to go in the same amount of time, but the spinning rims, enormous spoiler, carbon hood, underlit chassis and other bling found on the latter demonstrates that its owner not only has a large amount of disposable income, but also (and perhaps more importantly) that he has game.
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JohnBT
Member
"My $400 Wingmaster works fine."
My $199.95 870 Express Magnum works fine too, want to trade?
But, you might say, a Wingmaster has real walnut and not painted hardwood, and it's polished and blued instead of beadblasted and blued. And you'd be right, but the Express does everything the Wingmaster does and even shoots 3" shells. Everything except feel quite right and look quite right.
Same thing with my black synthetic 1100 from Wal-Mart. Great gun for $328, but it's just not the same as a walnut and blue one. Doesn't handle the same, feel the same and certainly doesn't look as good.
Like the Filson catalog says "Why not have the best."
John
P.S. - I've been driving my dad's '06 Avalon and it's a surprising car. It's surprised a bunch of modded-import wannabe road racers. I didn't know it would do 0-60 in 6.5. Neither did they it seems.
My $199.95 870 Express Magnum works fine too, want to trade?
But, you might say, a Wingmaster has real walnut and not painted hardwood, and it's polished and blued instead of beadblasted and blued. And you'd be right, but the Express does everything the Wingmaster does and even shoots 3" shells. Everything except feel quite right and look quite right.
Same thing with my black synthetic 1100 from Wal-Mart. Great gun for $328, but it's just not the same as a walnut and blue one. Doesn't handle the same, feel the same and certainly doesn't look as good.
Like the Filson catalog says "Why not have the best."
John
P.S. - I've been driving my dad's '06 Avalon and it's a surprising car. It's surprised a bunch of modded-import wannabe road racers. I didn't know it would do 0-60 in 6.5. Neither did they it seems.
One reason the prices are high is the devaluation of the dollar and most "highend" shotguns are O/U and not made in the USA.
But, in plain grade competition guns the handfitting, quality of materials, options and the "service" level is head and shoulders above the "production" guns...as is the price.
Prices have really "spiked" in the last several years IMO. From my "experience" over the years the Perazzi level was about 3 times the cost of a Browning, for example. I think that's about 4 times now and the Kreighoff is about 5 times now...offhand and from memory. kreighoff was always more expensive than Perazzi. Not because it was "worth more" IMO, simply because they could "get it".
Keep in mind, they don't sell many new guns each year either. There are a lot of them around because they are durable, rebuildable and can be a good used buy! Expensive to rebuild by the way!
But, in plain grade competition guns the handfitting, quality of materials, options and the "service" level is head and shoulders above the "production" guns...as is the price.
Prices have really "spiked" in the last several years IMO. From my "experience" over the years the Perazzi level was about 3 times the cost of a Browning, for example. I think that's about 4 times now and the Kreighoff is about 5 times now...offhand and from memory. kreighoff was always more expensive than Perazzi. Not because it was "worth more" IMO, simply because they could "get it".
Keep in mind, they don't sell many new guns each year either. There are a lot of them around because they are durable, rebuildable and can be a good used buy! Expensive to rebuild by the way!
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ialevy
Member
Why is it whenever the question of high-dollar guns comes up, there is always people chiming in with the fact that they out shoot people using $80,000 FerazziBMW shotguns with their $20 crap-stick.
I drive BMWs. Owning the car doesn't make me a better driver, it makes me want to be a better driver. I take driver's schools and track days that most folks that just use a car as a box to take them from point A to B never would. So, yes, I probably am a better driver than the average Kia owner
It seems we all want to be Hollywood - style lower class heros. Showing up the rich folks with their down to earth skills and knowledge.
I have shot with rich guys and their Perazzis (with my $1400 Benelli auto) and they were some of the nicest shooters I have met. I did not feel like the odd man out.
Jealousy is NOT The High Road
I drive BMWs. Owning the car doesn't make me a better driver, it makes me want to be a better driver. I take driver's schools and track days that most folks that just use a car as a box to take them from point A to B never would. So, yes, I probably am a better driver than the average Kia owner
It seems we all want to be Hollywood - style lower class heros. Showing up the rich folks with their down to earth skills and knowledge.
I have shot with rich guys and their Perazzis (with my $1400 Benelli auto) and they were some of the nicest shooters I have met. I did not feel like the odd man out.
Jealousy is NOT The High Road
Dave McCracken
Moderator In Memoriam
Our species has prettied up its weapons since chipped flint was the state of the art.
My B-gun is the most expensive firearm I've ever bought. It's also Beretta's entry level O/U. It has the same action as the $4K models, just not as pretty wood nor engraving. It'll last just as long.
I handled a Blaser F 3 the other day. Another Pure D competition gun. List on that is about $6K. It's about the most expensive non blinged O/U around. After that the money goes for esthetics.
Some stuff isn't for use. More for looks and braggin' rights.
Were I to hit the Megamillions or answer all of Alex's questions I'd probably squander some shekels on pretty firearms. But, all of them would be using guns, not collector's trophies.
My B-gun is the most expensive firearm I've ever bought. It's also Beretta's entry level O/U. It has the same action as the $4K models, just not as pretty wood nor engraving. It'll last just as long.
I handled a Blaser F 3 the other day. Another Pure D competition gun. List on that is about $6K. It's about the most expensive non blinged O/U around. After that the money goes for esthetics.
Some stuff isn't for use. More for looks and braggin' rights.
Were I to hit the Megamillions or answer all of Alex's questions I'd probably squander some shekels on pretty firearms. But, all of them would be using guns, not collector's trophies.
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