53gr v max-ballistic cofficient questions.

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I am currently shooting 55gr v max in 223rem around 3200fps MV. I have been reading a lot and see people saying shoot a 52-53gr .224 bullet for better ballistic coefficient for longer range shooting. I am shooting woodchucks with these rounds and would like to stretch it out to 350-400yards so once again that bullet is recommended form what I've read. I played around with Hornadys ballistics calculator with 50gr, 53gr and 55gr v max and the 55 and 53gr seem to be the sweet spot for flatter shooting with the 53gr giving more 300-400yard velocity and foot pounds and a little flatter shooting according to the ballistics calculator.

Would you guys switch bullets or just stick with the 50-55gr. I want to try the 50's cause I can get the z max in bulk for well under the price of v max. Ive never really bother with BC so this is new to me but would like all the help I can get to shoot 350-400yards if it will help at all. :)
 
The 53 grain V Max has a B.C. Of .290(because it is a boat tail type bullet although not a major boat tail) ...

The 55 grain V Max has a B.C. Of .255 ... and is a flat base bullet...

Being that you can also drive the 53 grain slightly faster along with the B.C. Advantage... It comes out ahead at the yardage you're talking about ...
 
The 53 gr V-MAX is a slightly different animal than the 50 or 55 gr V-MAX bullets. It gets its higher BC from the fact that is has a secant ogive profile instead of the tangent profile on the other two. The secant profile might make it more sensitive to seating depth than the others. In my rifle, it gave poor accuracy at the 2.240" COL stated in the Hornady manual. I seated it out to 2.280" COL (after determining that was safe in my rifle) and it shoots much better, but not enough better to knock your socks off. If the cheaper Z-MAX shoot well for you, I'm not sure the 'chucks will know the difference...

ETA:
Yes, as JimKirk pointed out, the 53 gr V-MAX has a slight boat tail (so does the 50 gr V-MAX) as opposed the the flat bottom 60 gr. But the Hornady engineers that I talked to about it verified that it was the secant ogive profile that actually makes the difference for the higher BC of the 53 gr.
 
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climbnjump said:
The 53 gr V-MAX is a slightly different animal than the 50 or 55 gr V-MAX bullets. It gets its higher BC from the fact that is has a secant ogive profile instead of the tangent profile on the other two. The secant profile might make it more sensitive to seating depth than the others. In my rifle, it gave poor accuracy at the 2.240" COL stated in the Hornady manual. I seated it out to 2.280" COL (after determining that was safe in my rifle) and it shoots much better, but not enough better to knock your socks off. If the cheaper Z-MAX shoot well for you, I'm not sure the 'chucks will know the difference...
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That could cause an issue with me as book states 2.250 for 55gr v max and 2.235 I'm into my lands. I haven't tried the z max yet so was going to get 100rds of 50gr to try and if they shot good get the brick of 50gr z max. I called hornady they said it's exactly the same bullet as a v max so no worries.

I figured I might get a little more accuracy with the 53gr being a higher bc from what I've been reading but if a 50 or 55gr can do just as good at those ranges I'd be happy with that. I've never shot over 200yards so just trying to make sure everything is perfect.
 
ohihunter2014 said:
That could cause an issue with me as book states 2.250 for 55gr v max and 2.235 I'm into my lands. I haven't tried the z max yet so was going to get 100rds of 50gr to try and if they shot good get the brick of 50gr z max. I called hornady they said it's exactly the same bullet as a v max so no worries.

I figured I might get a little more accuracy with the 53gr being a higher bc from what I've been reading but if a 50 or 55gr can do just as good at those ranges I'd be happy with that. I've never shot over 200yards so just trying to make sure everything is perfect.
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The difference in ogive profile will allow you to seat longer as it makes the bullet thinner towards the tip than the vmax you already have. Think Berger.
 
ohihunter2014 said:
That could cause an issue with me as book states 2.250 for 55gr v max and 2.235 I'm into my lands
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As you noted, it isn't just the COL that counts so much (within limits, of course), it is the distance from the lands - which is also affected by the bullet profile - not just the COL.

In my rifle, the 53 gr bullets were .088 off the lands at the book COL of 2.240 so seating them out to 2.280 brought them to "just" .048 off the lands and that helped accuracy.

In comparison, the 55 gr V-MAX are just .025 off the lands at the stated book COL of 2.250 and the 50 gr V-MAX are just .030 off the lands at their stated COL of 2.240. I use the book COL for both of those bullets, but the book COL for the 53 gr bullet seemed way off to me. That was what prompted my call the the Hornady folks in the first place.

So a COL of 2.280 for the 53 gr V-MAX is what worked for me, but anyone else would have to determine what would work for them in their rifle.
 
climbnjump said:
As you noted, it isn't just the COL that counts so much (within limits, of course), it is the distance from the lands - which is also affected by the bullet profile - not just the COL.

In my rifle, the 53 gr bullets were .088 off the lands at the book COL of 2.240 so seating them out to 2.280 brought them to "just" .048 off the lands and that helped accuracy.

In comparison, the 55 gr V-MAX are just .025 off the lands at the stated book COL of 2.250 and the 50 gr V-MAX are just .030 off the lands at their stated COL of 2.240. I use the book COL for both of those bullets, but the book COL for the 53 gr bullet seemed way off to me. That was what prompted my call the the Hornady folks in the first place.

So a COL of 2.280 for the 53 gr V-MAX is what worked for me, but anyone else would have to determine what would work for them in their rifle.
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I agree and only want to add that chasing the lands with the .223 is not as futile as something much more overbored I.e. .22-250 or .243 or 6.5-284, thus if you NEED to be .048 off the lands, your accuracy will last longer at current coal. There is a point of diminishing returns with the lands game, but that is for each to decide for themselves. I would also like to point out that a Sierra 60/63 might work fantastically for the ranges discussed with a savage 1:9" twist.
 
horsey300 said:
I agree and only want to add that chasing the lands with the .223 is not as futile as something much more overbored I.e. .22-250 or .243 or 6.5-284, thus if you NEED to be .048 off the lands, your accuracy will last longer at current coal. There is a point of diminishing returns with the lands game, but that is for each to decide for themselves. I would also like to point out that a Sierra 60/63 might work fantastically for the ranges discussed with a savage 1:9" twist.
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I'm not familiar with sierra. Do they make a 60/63gr ballistic tip?
 
ohihunter2014 said:
I'm not familiar with sierra. Do they make a 60/63gr ballistic tip?
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No, the 60 is a hollowpoint, and the 63 is a semi point. There's also the 65 gameking, if I were running a 9" twist I'd push that pony hard, btsp good bc and downrange performance. I run gamekings in other cartridges and I'm a sheer believer, Sierra delivers both accuracy and terminal performance, I don't work for em but I wish I did.
 
You'll have to just try the 53gr v-max to see if it'll work for you.
My 1/9" 16.5"bbl AR "Likes" them. As well as an older Rem. M7, and a CZ527 in .222.
However, my Rem. M700 .22-250 "gags" on them. No rhyme or reason! The M7 has a 1/12"bbl, the .22-250 a 1/14", and the .222 a ~1/17" twist.
 
GooseGestapo said:
You'll have to just try the 53gr v-max to see if it'll work for you.
My 1/9" 16.5"bbl AR "Likes" them. As well as an older Rem. M7, and a CZ527 in .222.
However, my Rem. M700 .22-250 "gags" on them. No rhyme or reason! The M7 has a 1/12"bbl, the .22-250 a 1/14", and the .222 a ~1/17" twist.
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just grabbed some 50 grainers and tried finding 53s last night but no such luck. cabelas reloading shelves look like a tornando went through there.
 
MidwayUSA has them, on sale $17.29/100. $10 off $100+ order.
Grafs has them @$17.99, $7.95 flat rate shipping (better deal, regular price!)
 
"...switch bullets or just stick with..." How accurate are the 55's? BC is a measure of how well a bullet resists the wind. Affects accuracy not in the least.
 
Sunray said:
"...switch bullets or just stick with..." How accurate are the 55's? BC is a measure of how well a bullet resists the wind. Affects accuracy not in the least.
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55's send 5 in a nickel but i have gotten 5 in a dime at 100yards. I didn't know BC was a wind thing i figured it was for accuracy.
 
I would stick with the heavier bullet if you're shooting out to 300-400 yards. You would be surprised how much the wind effects bullets and the heavier bullet will be less effected. Sure it's not a lot when talking about a few gr of weight but every little bit helps.
 
As a guy who thoroughly enjoys splitting hairs - the 53grn V-max isn't going to do much different than what you're doing now with the 55grn V-max. At 400yrds, even if you give the 53grn an ambitious extra 100fps over the 55, you're talking about 0.2mil difference - about 2.9" extra drop, and 0.3mil (~4.3") extra wind drift. Switch if you like, but when you're talking about a difference in drop smaller than your total group size, it's much ado about nothing. I've been shooting the 50 V-max, with a lower BC than either the 53 or 55, for a long time, many, many, many of those 600yrds. There are far better bullets for the job, but I'd be lying if I said I could really tell the difference between the 50 and the 55 (of which I have shot thousands as well).

There is a 60 V-max, but it's only a .265 BC, due to its flat base and forgiving ogive - then you jump all the way to the new 73 ELD-M.

I posted a similar breakdown of ballistics comparison in another post recently about 30-06 ammunition. At mid-range, the difference in aerodynamics really hasn't started to separate bullets, and frankly, there's just not that much difference between a .255 and .290, or even the .242 I shoot in the 50's. The 50, 53, and 55 v-max do all shoot differently, so you may find it worthwhile to test them all in your rifle - I've consistently had the best luck with the 50grn among various rifles, so that's the one I shoot. Figure out which one groups the best, and shoot it - if you can manage the drop and wind at 400yrds with one of them, it will be no different for the other two. At the end of the day, it's still a 223rem, and it's still only a 5-10% change in bullet weight. When we're talking about 0.2-0.3mil difference between POI's, it's just not worth spending much breath.
 
Varminterror said:
As a guy who thoroughly enjoys splitting hairs - the 53grn V-max isn't going to do much different than what you're doing now with the 55grn V-max. At 400yrds, even if you give the 53grn an ambitious extra 100fps over the 55, you're talking about 0.2mil difference - about 2.9" extra drop, and 0.3mil (~4.3") extra wind drift. Switch if you like, but when you're talking about a difference in drop smaller than your total group size, it's much ado about nothing. I've been shooting the 50 V-max, with a lower BC than either the 53 or 55, for a long time, many, many, many of those 600yrds. There are far better bullets for the job, but I'd be lying if I said I could really tell the difference between the 50 and the 55 (of which I have shot thousands as well).

There is a 60 V-max, but it's only a .265 BC, due to its flat base and forgiving ogive - then you jump all the way to the new 73 ELD-M.

I posted a similar breakdown of ballistics comparison in another post recently about 30-06 ammunition. At mid-range, the difference in aerodynamics really hasn't started to separate bullets, and frankly, there's just not that much difference between a .255 and .290, or even the .242 I shoot in the 50's. The 50, 53, and 55 v-max do all shoot differently, so you may find it worthwhile to test them all in your rifle - I've consistently had the best luck with the 50grn among various rifles, so that's the one I shoot. Figure out which one groups the best, and shoot it - if you can manage the drop and wind at 400yrds with one of them, it will be no different for the other two. At the end of the day, it's still a 223rem, and it's still only a 5-10% change in bullet weight. When we're talking about 0.2-0.3mil difference between POI's, it's just not worth spending much breath.
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thanks! having such a short throat I'm a little worried about going with a longer bullet cause of the short seating depth but might try the 60gr v max. I just loaded 50-50gr v max from 22-25gr benchmark and if they shoot well I can buy the z max in bulk but my 1-9 twist might be a little much for the 50's I've read. I will find some 60gr and see how those shoot as well. The 55's shoot very well I'm just looking for something that will help make clean kills at those ranges.
 
ohihunter2014 said:
thanks! having such a short throat I'm a little worried about going with a longer bullet cause of the short seating depth but might try the 60gr v max. I just loaded 50-50gr v max from 22-25gr benchmark and if they shoot well I can buy the z max in bulk but my 1-9 twist might be a little much for the 50's I've read. I will find some 60gr and see how those shoot as well. The 55's shoot very well I'm just looking for something that will help make clean kills at those ranges.
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At 300 yds, YOU will make a bigger difference than the bullet you choose, we are talking about a little .224 pill here, I'd pick THE most accurate pill that keeps me in the kill zone at that range. If all 3 bullets can put 20 of them in a 2.5" group at 300 yds, then woe is you lol we'll know it wasn't the load that misses the Chuck;).
 
ohihunter2014 said:
thanks! having such a short throat I'm a little worried about going with a longer bullet cause of the short seating depth but might try the 60gr v max. I just loaded 50-50gr v max from 22-25gr benchmark and if they shoot well I can buy the z max in bulk but my 1-9 twist might be a little much for the 50's I've read. I will find some 60gr and see how those shoot as well. The 55's shoot very well I'm just looking for something that will help make clean kills at those ranges.
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The 50gr bullets will shoot just fine in a 1:9 twist barrel. As for clean kills, think head-shots. I have cleanly killed chucks with 22LR ammo with head-shots.
 
ohihunter2014 said:
thanks! having such a short throat I'm a little worried about going with a longer bullet cause of the short seating depth but might try the 60gr v max. I just loaded 50-50gr v max from 22-25gr benchmark and if they shoot well I can buy the z max in bulk but my 1-9 twist might be a little much for the 50's I've read. I will find some 60gr and see how those shoot as well. The 55's shoot very well I'm just looking for something that will help make clean kills at those ranges.
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I have two Bushmasters, an M4gery and a Varminter, plus a Savage 12 with 1:9" barrels, and my wife has a matching Savage 12. These 4 rifles have shot thousands on thousands of 50grn Vmax's. Never have been able to spin one apart even with. A 7.7" twist, let alone the 1:9". Personally, I'd slate the 50's as ideal for 1:9".
 
ohihunter2014 said:
my 1-9 twist might be a little much for the 50's I've read. I will find some 60gr and see...
Click to expand...

...the 60 gr V-max was rated one of the most accurate by the author of an article in Hodgdon's Annual Reloading Manual some years back when he was reviewing the new CFE powder. May have been 2015...
 
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