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6.5 Grendel Semi-Auto Options: Please Help

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Huntolive, Jun 27, 2016.

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  1. Huntolive

    Huntolive Member

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    I am looking into getting a 6.5 Grendel semi auto as multi-purpose hog, deer, and battle/long range defense rifle. I do NOT like 5.56/.223 AR's and have no use for them in hunting, and find they jam alot. I do have AR 10's in 308 and want to like them, but except for my PSA they tend to jam a lot or be picky w/ ammo or they FTE or FTF. I recently got an M1A Socom on the advice of several members here, and love it, but boy is it a chunk of gun, still, I'd take it hog hunting, or happy to have for reliable battle/defense rifle.

    I was looking at getting an upgraded AR10 that was lighter, like a DPMS G2 Hunter w/ 16" barrel, but then heard about 6.5 Grendel and love the ballistics. So why not get a 6.5 G upper on a AR 15 lower and have an even lighter gun and equally if not more capable rifle?.
    I was planning on an 18" barrel.

    I don't tend to trust AR's of any caliber for reliably cycling ammo, and consider their reliability in a critical situation suspect, and I am NOT an expert in mixing and matching AR's. I am better versed in AK's and also have a Saiga AK style in 308 that is 1000% reliable cycling ammo and reasonably accurate, but a bit bulky and major muzzle blast, but I will always keep that handy, just may be too much to carry out hunting.

    So I'd like info and advice on:
    1. 6.5 Grendel in general
    2. Ideas on platforms for a 6.5 G build. Is AR 15 lower best way to go? What about AK version (VEPR?)
    3. Experience with DPMS G2 Hunter or Recon
    4. Experience with Anderson AM10 308 with R85 coating
    5. Realistic comparisons (not overly technical) btwn 308 and 6.5 Grendel

    Bottom line: I want a RELIABLE, PORTABLE, Potent rifle for Hunting large game, battlefield/defense that can shoot out to 800 yards.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2016
  2. Freedom_fighter_in_IL

    Freedom_fighter_in_IL Member

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    Don't know if you built your own or bought some junkers but your problems with AR's are rare. I have several AR/LR platforms that once tuned up I've never had a FTE/FTF from any of them except from a couple of bad primers which you get a few over the years. As long as you perform the proper maintenance such as, keeping your gas system clean, BCG clean, and barrel clean, then you should have a solidly functioning AR.

    As far as the 6.5 Gren..It's a dang fine cartridge for all that you are asking of it. 100-125 grain offerings out there for reloading and there are several factory loads specific to the AR OAL for mag fed. Lot's of guys hunting hogs with them and I have never met one that wasn't satisfied with the cartridge's performance on hogs of all sizes.

    As far as equipment, I personally use Aero Precision for my builds. They have fantastic quality parts and very reasonable prices. Yes there are cheaper ways to go such as DPMS "beginner" rifles but in all actuality, you get what you pay for. Aero has sales going on all the time. I don't see a problem with you building a 6.5 gren for under 850 (minus optics of course) and that is using their higher end parts.
     
  3. Cemetery21

    Cemetery21 Member

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  4. Huntolive

    Huntolive Member

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    Thanks, keep it comin'!

    Thanks, glad 2 hear of happy hog hunters w. 6.5 G.
    Maybe it's bad luck, but I have had FTE and FTF jams (sometimes where the bolt won't even open on a FTF) with all my AR10's (except the PSA, which will shoot anything, and shoot accurately). Have Aeropercision AR10 build that is super accurate and smooth but only shoots 1 out of 5 types of ammo I've tried (and yes, all ammo has been brass cased)w/o jamming every few rounds. DPMS LR (Oracle?) equally bad. Whereas my M1A, FAL and Saiga 308's have never jammed or FTE once.

    I am still willing to give AR platform a chance in both 308 and as a system for 6.5 G. How much more reliable are the DPMS G2's that the Oracle? Any experience with the Anderson AM10 Hunter w/ R85 coating?

    Can I get a piston driven AR 6.5 G build? Should i? What other platforms are there?

    Still looking for advice and general info on 6.5 G for hunting and battle rifle. Is it as capable as 308 for knock-down power, penetrating doors/etc and dispatching large game?
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2016
  5. browningguy

    browningguy Member

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    I've had a 24" Alexander Arms for a couple of years and it works great for hunting and paper punching out to 600 yards. I haven't had to shoot through any doors though.
     
  6. Huntolive

    Huntolive Member

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    Thanks, keep it comin'!

    How reliable has the Alex Arms rifle been. I looked at the site mentioned above. A bit pricy:eek: Can't I just get any decent AR 15 lower and buy a 6.5 G upper and marry them? Is there anything SPECIFICALLY different in a "6.5 G lower"
    or won't any AR 15 lower work with a good 6.5 G upper?
    That said, I have heard some good things about Alex. Arms 6.5 G's.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2016
  7. Dentite

    Dentite Member

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    Any standard AR-15 lower will work fine. The 6.5G specific parts are the barrel, bolt, magazine.

    The only platform I would look at with the 6.5G is the AR-15. That's the advantage of 6.5G, it's short enough to fit in an AR.

    I'd only get a 6.5G if you want an AR-15.

    I built one last year and have enjoyed using it. I had a couple FTF but it was magazine specific. Now that I found some different mags, the rifle has been 100% since then.

    Run some numbers on ballistics charts. For me, the number than was impressive to me was that my 6.5G load out of my 19" AR generates twice the energy at 300 yards vs my .223 load out of a 22" bolt action.

    That said, it's not as powerful as a .308 or a better comparison is 6.5 Creedmore or .260. Both of those make more power than 6.5G but they don't fit in an AR-15.

    Hope that helps.
     
  8. Freedom_fighter_in_IL

    Freedom_fighter_in_IL Member

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    Since the 6.5 Gren was actually designed for the AR platform (based off the 6.5 PPC) I'd have to agree with the above statement. There are many offerings in the 6.5 world with excellent BC for that downrange punch. I personally bring out my bigger toys if I am expecting 300+ yard shots. While the 6.5Gren is capable, I tend to like the extra "hello dolly" delivered by 160+ grains. While a big old 250+ pound hog may be just as dead from a 300 yard 6.5, It may actually realize it a bit quicker from my bigger boys!
     
  9. Dentite

    Dentite Member

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    Yep, I agree Freedom Fighter.

    I built my 6.5G for smaller game such as coyotes and javelina. I'm out west so sometimes longer shots are taken.

    I haven't had a chance to use it on a javelina yet, but I've killed 4-5 coyotes with it (admittedly they were all within 100 yards and a .223 would have probably done just as well). Did it's job.

    When it comes to deer I'm reaching for my .260 bolt gun or my .300WSM. Elk it's the .300WSM.

    So I don't try to make the 6.5G into something more powerful than it really is, but I do like the cartridge and the extra punch over .223.
     
  10. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

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    I am a depredation hog hunter and am out 2-3 times a week, mostly for other landowners. I do a little predator hunting as well. My primary platform is an one of three Grendel AR15s, 2 from Alexander Arms and one custom build made from parts won in a hunting competition from another forum. I have taken over 100 hogs with my Grendels and have documented a lot of the kills on video, as well as some of the losses. In my estimation, the Grendel is a good hog caliber.

    It should go without saying that any hog does not suffer from CNS damage when shot is a hog apt to run. I have documented this with .45-70, .308, and Grendel. That is just the way that it is. A hog with a blown heart or blown lungs can travel in excess of 100 yards, though less is probably normal.

    AR15 is the primary platform for Grendels. There are a couple of bolt gun makers, but if going to a bolt gun, a different caliber might be a better choice. Kel-Tec is supposed to have a Grendel bullpup coming out, but nothing is on the market. For a semi, your options are pretty limited.

    I hunt primarily with factory loaded ammo. I am involved in a couple bullet testing projects that are using handloads, but otherwise, I rely on factory ammo. That is a personal preference, but one that has worked well for me.

    Here are a few of my videos. You can check out others on my Youtube channel if you are so inclined, but these relate a bit to your queries...

    Large hogs...
    https://youtu.be/3TqQvIZ-W3E (note the penetration)
    https://youtu.be/6txddnqz7gg

    .308/Grendel Penetration Comparison...
    https://youtu.be/0UCUaCnCryI

    Accuracy...
    https://youtu.be/EvAHYvWqiiA


    I would agree with this. I really like the Grendel, but there are countless capable calibers out there that work well. The Grendel is gaining in popularity, but you have a lot more options with some of the other calibers.
     
  11. David4516

    David4516 Member

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    I am working on a 6.5 Grendel AR build myself. I'll let you know how well it shoots. I bought my upper from Red X Arms. This is my first time buying from them and hopefully the upper works well (took a bit of a gamble going with a lesser known brand)

    http://shop.redxarms.com/20-RXA15-65-GRENDEL-TACTICAL-FLUTED-SS-UPPER-2065GRENDELUH.htm


    Yeah the gun that makes most sense in this caliber is the AR-15 if you were going with an AR-10 or a bolt gun you might as well go with .260

    None can't help with this question

    Again, not much help here...

    .308 has the advantage for most things (it's a heavier bullet at higher velocity) unless you want a smaller lighter gun in which case the 6.5 is the winner. Also the .308 is very common you can find ammo or reloading components just about anywhere, the Grendel is tougher to find. The Grendel does have more of a "cool" factor for that reason though

    I don't think the Grendel is going to do better than a .308 but it wasn't really designed for that it was designed to be better than a .223

    I don't have any real life experience with it yet but on paper it does have alot more foot pounds of energy than .223 does and does better at longer distances due to the better ballistic coefficient of the 6.5mm bullets (again compared the .223 bullets)
     
  12. barnbwt

    barnbwt member

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    If'n you can wait, Kel Tec will supposedly be doing an RDB bullpup in Grendel
     
  13. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

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    KelTec has had one in the works for several years. They have prototypes but no production. Waiting could be a very long time.
     
  14. Huntolive

    Huntolive Member

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    Thanks to all, THR is the Best

    Thanks guys, and D. N. Spy I saw a couple of your videos, cool:).
    So I havn't hunted hogs at night, are the chances much better? Also, do you think a semi-auto is really preferable for hogs? How much of a factor is it, or am I just giving myself an excuse to buy another cool gun?:evil:
    Now I don't know if I should invest in the rifle or a good night scope, if i do, what optics do/did you recommend that won't cost over $1500, and preferably under $1000?

    Also, can the DPMS G2 hunter models really be trimmed down to 6lbs? DPMS lists the 16" brl version as 7.9 lbs.

    Still not sure whether to go w/ 308 or 6.5 Grendel :banghead:

    Also is there anything inherent to the 6.5 G that makes it more reliable in cycling ammo? I raise this as I have seen numerous AR10's have issues w/ FTE and jams. I may even decide to stick with my Saiga 308 or M1A Socom 2, but I am seriously tempted by the Alexander Arms Hunter 6.5 G, (so much so that I ordered ammo for it before buying a rifle) still 308 has such a classic ring to it, but heavy!

    The Alex. Arms I am looking at is pretty sweet in camo,nice trigger/stock, weighs just under 7lbs with 18" stainless fluted non-treated/non-lined barrel, but costs $1700. They have a basic "light" model in black w/ 16" barrel and crappy furniture for $1100 w/ melonite light barrel. What are the implications of 16" vs 18" barrel length in this caliber? I have heard velocity and thus long-range suffers w/ 16"; Alexander rep. claims insignificant difference. What about Stainless fluted un-lined barrel vs extra light melonite treated barrel? Could the light melonite barrel over heat and become inaccurate in a battle-field/high rate of fire scenario or rapid target shooting compared to the stainless? The light weight version is just 5 lbs 9ounces!!!

    Pros and cons of mixing and matching Ar 15 lowers w/ Alexander upper ($760) vs buying an Alexander complete rifle from "the source" ?
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2016
  15. SVTOhio

    SVTOhio Member

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    I'm also considering a AR build in Grendel. The "pistol driven" part you are speaking of is part of the upper not the lower. The lower is a standard AR 15 lower. I don't see why a Grendel upper couldn't be fitted to be piston driven but your price will go up. A lot of people have different opinions on whether piston uppers are more reliable. Some people claims they are cleaner and more efficient, and the other crowd claims "it's a solution looking for a problem".
     
  16. TRX

    TRX Member

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    Lots of guys have built Kalashnikovs in 6.5 Grendel. The Grendel is a necked-down 7.62x39, so it fits the bolt face without modification.

    The case taper is shallower than the x39; some people use 5.56 AK mags (not 5.45), others use a STANAG adapter and AR mags.

    Every now and then out of the AK boutique shops makes a run in 6.5 if you're not into DIY.

    Molot and Saiga make full-stock sporting variant if you're not into the military look. Same for the Valmet and Norinco "hunter" models, but those are pretty much collectibles now.

    There have supposedly been a few SKS conversions, but I haven't seen any details. Ruger's Mini-14 would also be a potential candidate.
     
  17. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

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    Sure. When pressured and often during the really hot months, they tend to be most active after dark. Make sure night hunting is legal where you are.

    If you are food hunting, it won't matter. For single boars, it likely won't matter much either. If you are depredation hunting and dealing with sounders, semi-auto is preferred as it can afford you more opportunities to shoot hogs. Vegetation and terrain also play a big part. If you hunt a property like mine with a lot of woods and only small pastures, the chance of getting off more than a couple of shots, even with a semi, is pretty low. If you are hunting big fields with low vegetation and long views, a semi can be a huge benefit.

    It is not a huge factor. I think it is beneficial, but certainly not a requirement or necessity. Some bolt gun shooters are very fast as well, but not many. Nothing wrong with buying another cool gun.

    After having gone the NV route, I would suggest you save your money for a budget thermal, such as a Pulsar Apex XD38a. You can do so much more with a thermal. Not meaning to sound like a thermal snob, but thermal prices are dropping and NV rifle scopes seems to be more of a gateway technology (like a gateway drug) that just gives you a taste and then you end up spending more on trying to make it better and/or end up end up buying thermal.

    With that said, all of the inexpensive NV will need a good aftermarket IR illuminator. You have Pulsar, ATN, and Armasight as primary choices. The Pulsar Photon is reliable, but has the worst picture. ATN's X-Sight II shows the most promise, but the company has serious CS issues and the units are still buggy, but record and have a good picture. The Armasight Vampire is traditional NV, Gen 1. It has a clear image and works well, but can be ruined by sunlight. All of these come with IR illuminators, but need a better illuminator to take advantage of their full capability.
     
  18. barnbwt

    barnbwt member

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    If counting conversions, see also VZ52 amd the RPD :D
     
  19. Huntolive

    Huntolive Member

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    Thanks, keep it comin'!

    If I do the 6.5 G, I will stick to AR platform, especially due to weight/size benefits, which is the primary reason, I was steered towards 6.5G.

    So for hogs, what is the realistic danger level from being charged/racked gored (especially at night if not in a stand over a feeder) seems semi auto would be good there to, and might also carry a revolver. Of the NV or Thermals you mentioned, which is in "under $1000" category and still decent? What about usinf good ol' fashioned 7.62 X 39 AK style for hogs? And if so what round do you suggest?
     
  20. goon

    goon Member

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    I know this gets repeated a lot, but any serviceable firearm of sufficient power that you can shoot well will work for hunting.

    If you have an old Glenfield 30-30 with a 4x scope, load it with your favorite 170 grain load and it'll knock deer or hogs over. We make it too hard. Sufficient power, decently accurate, put the sights on the vitals and squeeze the trigger. Doesn't take a hugely advanced rifle to kill a game animal. If people in the past have done with with stone points on atlatls, I can do it with a normal rifle.
     
  21. TRX

    TRX Member

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    Sweet reason doesn't help when you're trying to justify buying new toys...
     
  22. Huntolive

    Huntolive Member

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    Thanks again. Yes, Reason vs :what::fire:Lust and Burn to Buy New Guns:evil:

    I'm sure I have all i need, but life happens and guns come and go like waves but most stick around;)

    I'm getting the 6.5 Grendel on AR 15 platform:
    Light Weight
    Adaptable
    Accurate
    Long range capability
    Sufficient power
    Low recoil
    Manageable size
    Should be able 2 do all I ask

    Does anyone know if piston upper versions exist?
    How much velocity (in real life impact terms for hunting) will i lose if I go with 16" barrel vs 18" inch barrel? I can shed a full pound by going with 16"

    When i get it I'll posts pics and specs
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2016
  23. goon

    goon Member

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    Years ago I got my intro to gun literature from my grandfather and my great uncle. My great uncle would give me his secondhand American Rifleman magazines, and my grandfather would give me Field & Stream when he finished reading them.

    In one Field & Stream, I read a story about a teenager who got his first hunting rifle in the '50's. It was an old surplus rifle, but it was what his mom could afford for him at the time. His father wasn't in the picture and his mother didn't know a lot about guns, so she picked the rifle out of a catalog and just bought it for him. He took it hog hunting on his first hunt and was confronted by a hog that charged him. The kid took the most careful aim he could under the circumstances, fired one shot, then turned and ran thinking he must have missed. Turned out he'd hit the hog directly between the eyes... with a full power 405 grain .45-70 load. The rifle was a Trapdoor Springfield.
    ;)

    It's been a great discussion though. I have some interest in the 6.5 Grendel and the questions and answers in this and your other thread have been pretty educational. Good luck on the new rifle.
     
  24. David4516

    David4516 Member

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    As far as I can tell, no. You might be able to build one yourself? I don't know much about piston uppers for AR rifles. I have to ask though, why would you want piston? Wouldn't that add weight? I thought the goal was to keep this thing light?

    My guess is about 100 FPS, this is a rough guess but it seems like it's usually about 50 FPS per every inch or barrel

    I think it depends on the barrel contour. If you have a really heavy barrel then taking 2 inches off if it might shed a pound? Probably not though. For what you want to do with this thing (800 yards?) you'll want that extra barrel length. You might even want to go with a 20 inch barrel.
     
  25. Freedom_fighter_in_IL

    Freedom_fighter_in_IL Member

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    With a standard contour barrel you wont lose anywhere near a pound with 2 inches off the barrel. around 6 ounces at most from a CM barrel. I personally would keep it at 18 inches at minimum and would more than likely have it at 20" for what you intend. As far as velocity loss, that depends on several factors of the barrel itself. but it usually calculates to 25-35fps per inch. At ranges that you are considering, I would want every FPS I could muster up.
     
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