6.8 SPC vs. 7.62 Question

[grahng]

Need thoughts on 6.8 SPC ammo. May be getting a new rifle soon and am considering this cal. How is it as far as cost, performance, and the future production? current have an Ar .223 but wanted to change things up some.
Thanks,
Jerry

 

[EdLaver]

The 6.8 SPC is a great cartridge, it just hasn't caught on with the mainstream yet. Mainly due to cost. You can buy a 6.8 upper for your current lower and all that is needed after that is magazines and ammo.

The magazines (if you want good ones) are pricey, Barrett and PRI make the best and they sell for around $40 each. As for the 6.8 cartridge itself, its not a round you can go to Wal-Mart or any Academy and buy ammo. Not even some gun stores themselves carry it. It is however readily available online but it is pricey. A great round, but expensive to shoot, especially if you arent a reloader. Kind of reminds me of a fine-tuned 7.62x39 round.

-Ed

 

[tincanhunter]

Cost: About $1.00 per round if you don't reload. I make 6.8 reloads for ~$0.40 per round. Some gun shops stock ammo, some don't. You can order from Barrett, Silver State Armory,...,I'm sure there are others...I roll my own.

Performance: Definitely more powerful than a .223, just as accurate. My run of the mill Bushmaster M4 will shoot 0.75" at 100 yds with hand loads.

Future production: More than likely, the 6.8 will be around for a good while. The US military uses 6.8 and the caliber is catching on with folks who hunt. Doubtful that it's going anywhere soon.

 

[lopezni]

I've been pushing it along with the Stag M7 6.8. It is a great rifle, lightweight, the hogue grips are awesome. The trigger is much nicer than 90% of what other AR's are offering. With S&B 110g PTS 2.5-3' groups at 300 yrds. Everyone I have sold one to says it is the best rifle they've ever had. I think with that accuracy and a 120gr ballistic tip bullet it is a legitamite 300yrd deer rifle.

 

[Ratdog68]

Regarding the 6.8 SPC II

Need thoughts on 6.8 SPC ammo. May be getting a new rifle soon and am considering this cal. How is it as far as cost, performance, and the future production? current have an Ar .223 but wanted to change things up some.
Thanks,
Jerry

First... some input for you on the upper you get for this caliber. You want to be certain that you get one which is chambered in the new/updated configuration of 6.8 SPC II and NOT the old/original SAAMI spec'd offering. You also want 1:11 - 1:12 rate of twist with rifling having an odd number and a land to groove ratio of about 30/70%. You'll then be able to take full advantage of everything the caliber will have to offer. If you have the SAAMI spec chambering, and/or the faster twist rates... you can run into excessive pressures and lower velocities.

Second... PRI mags offer the longest COAL for reloading, however, C-Products are now doing testing, and may offer a redesigned mag to allow for more COAL of hand rolled. Barrett's are also fine offerings.

Third... ammo is going to be about a $1/rd on average for factory loaded ammo. I recently found a sale on 90gr Pro Hunters by SSA through Sportsman's Guide at .75/rd. SSA is soon to be releasing factory loads with the brand new Barnes 95gr TTSX. This projectile was designed specifically FOR the 6.8 SPC II and is designed to open well (with four petals) at speeds as low as 1,600fps, which should make it effective for clean kills to 450yds. (and have nearly 100% weight retention). Hand rolled are approaching 3,000fps velocities. Remington's loadings are with brass which use large rifle primers. CorBon's loadings use Remington's LP brass. Hornady and SSA both use small rifle primer brass. SR brass seems to allow the best load performance. SSA did offer a large primer brass for a short period of time during the Nobama Scare when SR primers were non-existent... but, have returned to using SR brass.

This caliber is effective at taking boars (feral hogs) in the 300# class with single shot DRT performance (head/neck). Black bear is being harvested with it, as well as deer.

Some of the most accurate barrels have been of the Stainless variety... next are the chrome moly steel with nitrocarburizing... and then chrome lined seem to be the economy variety. This caliber seems to really like 12" - 16" barrels the most. 18" will net you about 50fps more velocity, and 20" just a tad more. Sub-MOA at 100yds. should be expected with the latest chambering/twist rate barrels.

For upper (assembled and ready to go)... I'd suggest you contact :

Bison Armory: Ben
AR15Performance: Harrison
Wilson Combat: Bill
Noveske: Todd

They seem to be the vendors who are plugged in to the latest refinements, and all seem to be in close touch with Art at SSA on a regular basis.

A great resource for all things 6.8 SPC II is the www.68forums.com site. Lots of great information to be gathered up... good group of guys there too.

I built myself a lower, got some C-Products mags for $12/ea and have an upper on order from AR15Performance with a 16" recon profiled chrome moly barrel, a YHM Diamond fore end, Kobel railed gas block, and Harrison's other goodies included.

The round appears to be gaining a following in the law enforcement community, as well as some limited military use. The Jordanians have also begun to use it for the palace guards protecting the head of state. I doubt that it's going to be fading away anytime soon.

 

[Rokman]

The 6.8 is definately a fun caliber to shoot and my AR is very accurate. I have never shot commercial ammo, only handloads, so I can't comment on that. The components are deffinately more costly than my .223 handloads, so I shoot much more .223. I am happy with my 6.8, and when I start hunting with it, there should be a big advantage over my .223 AR's.

 

[grahng]

Thanks for all the good poop guys.

 

[Ratdog68]

The 6.8 is definately a fun caliber to shoot and my AR is very accurate. I have never shot commercial ammo, only handloads, so I can't comment on that. The components are deffinately more costly than my .223 handloads, so I shoot much more .223. I am happy with my 6.8, and when I start hunting with it, there should be a big advantage over my .223 AR's.

I heard 'dat !!! I can't hunt deer in WA state with a .223, but, I CAN with a 6.8 !! That was enough for me to take serious interest and to start studying and taking in all that I can for the passed two months.

 

[grahng]

OK, now, in regards to my origianl question

"Need thoughts on 6.8 SPC ammo. May be getting a new rifle soon and am considering this cal. How is it as far as cost, performance, and the future production? current have an Ar .223 but wanted to change things up some.

Maybe I should consider my new rifle cal to be 7.62? Cheaper ammo I know. Keep in mind, that I am not buying an upper, but a new rifle, piston style ratherr than DI........Thoughts? Not a hunter..just a guy that loves to shoot. And who knows these days, could be for protection.
And help me understand the diff between 7.62x39 and 7.62x51?

 

[Ratdog68]

Final input

OK, now, in regards to my origianl question

"Need thoughts on 6.8 SPC ammo. May be getting a new rifle soon and am considering this cal. How is it as far as cost, performance, and the future production? current have an Ar .223 but wanted to change things up some.

Maybe I should consider my new rifle cal to be 7.62? Cheaper ammo I know. Keep in mind, that I am not buying an upper, but a new rifle, piston style ratherr than DI........Thoughts? Not a hunter..just a guy that loves to shoot. And who knows these days, could be for protection.
And help me understand the diff between 7.62x39 and 7.62x51?

I think I gave you a fair detail on the ammo already. I'll add this chart for a quick reference.

The vendors I listed... most (if not all) will be happy to sell you a complete rifle, not just an upper.

Piston AR... unless you're doing frequent competitions or LE training or military use... where 1,000s of rds at a time are being spent... the piston set up is basically "bragging rights". DI will serve the needs of 95% of shooters just fine... and the piston feature will add a MINIMUM of $300 to the cost of the weapon.

If you want a piston driven blaster in 7.62x39... just go buy an SKS and doll it up with a bunch of TAPCO goodies (for a lot less coin)

 

[Maverick223]

Don't care for the .270cal bullets too much, so I would look into the 6.5Grendel instead. This would be especially beneficial considering that you don't plan to hunt with it (benifits would be marginal for that use), as it allows you to utilize bullets with a better BC for longer range. That said, .223Rem. does pretty decent till you start reaching out a pretty good ways and at a whole lot less cost.

7.62x39mm is a great plinking round due to the low cost, but it looses its effectiveness at relatively short range (similar to the .30-30Win.). The 7.62x51mm is a pretty decent cartridge for reaching out a bit further and carries a good bit of energy with it too...but it requires a larger platform than the standard AR-15 (like the larger/heavier/costlier AR-10). If you are willing to jump up to the larger platform, the .260Rem. will offer the best ballistics, but factory ammunition is limited.

 

[grahng]

Thanks again for all the info. Ratdog, thanks especially for your time for the great write-ups and charts.
Everyone have a good one,
Jerry

 

[Ratdog68]

Thanks again for all the info. Ratdog, thanks sepcially for your time for the great writups and charts.
Everyone have a good one,
Jerry

Post up with what you settle in on... and don't forget the gun porn pix too. Good luck with the selection process.

 

[Float Pilot]

I have had a Stag 6.8mm (270 Kurtz) for a couple years now. I bought 1,000 rounds of SSA brass with the rifle. I experimented with all sorts of hand-loads until I became bored with it.
Mine has a 16 inch barrel so I am limited on what actual muzzle velocity I can obtain. Although it is fairly accurate with most groups under an inch at 100 yards.

I push:
90 grain bullets to 2,900 fps.
110 grain bullets to 2,550 fps
130 grain bullets to 2,250 fps.
and some 150s to 1,950 fps

A 20 inch barrel (like the M-7) would give another 100 fps.

From a 5.56 sized AR platform it delivers a bigger and heavier bullet than the 5.56mm.

Mine is for sale, not because it is not a good cartridge, but because for most Alaskan game it is not quite powerful enough. Deer yes, Caribou OK,, but that is about it..

If I had to hunt with an AR type rifle, it would be in the 7.62x51 size frame, and be either a .308 or maybe a 260 Rem.

My stubby cut-down M-1A shoots 147 grain ball ammo at 2,575 from its very short barrel.

 

[Lloyd Smale]

I thought it over alot before i bought my bushmaster in 762x39. Biggest thing was with the ammo and component shortages 6.8 brass is tough to find and expensive when found. 762 stuff was still available. The 6.8 may be a bit flatter shooting but both are about a 200 yard gun at there best may another 25-50 with the 6.8. But if im going hunting where the ranges are going to be that long id probably leave both at home anyway. Another good thing about the 762 is that i found 5 cases of wolf ammo still pretty cheap and i can take it out and play with it for the day and not have to worry about picking up my rare valuable brass. To me it was a no brainer.

 

[Tirod]

I haven't seen wildcat calibers as the best source of cheap ammo. I'd leave that to the surplus and imported military stuff. What the alternate calibers give you are more power or extended range compared to the 5.56. With either the 6.8 or 6.5, you will get sufficient of both for ranges out to 400m. They have flatter trajectories and are easier to shoot than the AK round, and will likely be twice as accurate simply because cheap plinker or military reject loads aren't around. They are all built right and sold as such.

Along with the caliber you get the optimum barrel length for each. 6.8 runs on 14.5 to 16" barrels as optimum, very little is gained or lost with 2" either way. 6.5 needs 20+ inches, it develops pressure more slowly and loses it quicker with short barrels. A really short 6.5 will lose enough velocity to make the extra BC a waste, it runs too slow to help. 7.62X39 runs fine in 16 to 18" barrels, but has .30-30 ballistics. It's not a flat shooter and is difficult to hold over beyond 300 yards. All will get game at traditional ranges.

With the 6.8 and 6.5 being optimizes for two different uses, what you trade off in the design for one, you gain in the other. 6.8 was designed for close in tactical use, 6.5 for long range precision use. Neither is anything like a 7.62x51 NATO, which is getting shot out to a mile in M14's and still has effectiveness because of the 160gr loading.

It basically comes out to matching your bullet results to what you need and then going that way. There are a lot of hunters going 6.8. For three gun, it offers no advantages poking holes in paper, or as a choice for cheap ammo. It should be chosen specifically because it is a more powerful caliber for a lightweight AR and a better package overall.

 

[EdLaver]

I have used a friend's 6.8 a couple weeks ago for the entire weekend and I really liked it. Dropped some hogs with it, did a little 250 yard shooting with it. Its a great round if money isn't an issue. But ultimately, I will stick with my AR10. I have lowered the recoil alot on my DPMS Sportical .308 by adding a PWS compensator and Enidine Hydralic Buffer. It still has bite, but not nearly as much as before. Much more pleasant to shoot now. I like having the power and range of the readily available .308/7.62x51. For those of us (like myself) who don't have endless pockets, I have settled with the .308 over the 6.8.

Now maybe in the near future I will pick up a 6.8 upper and a couple mags but no time soon.

 

[Tirod]

The 6.8 is a "short" action, the .308 is "medium." Lowers, bolts, and uppers don't interchange. About the only thing to swap between an AR15 and AR10 is the lower parts kit.

In any consideration of caliber, the finished package will be the result lived with. 6.8's are lighter, smaller, and easier to handle than .308's, three pounds and up to 10" shorter.

I've hunted all day with .308's and humped M16's all day with full battle rattle. Hunting with an AR in 6.8 seems to me to be the best combination.

 

[EdLaver]

The 6.8 is a "short" action, the .308 is "medium." Lowers, bolts, and uppers don't interchange. About the only thing to swap between an AR15 and AR10 is the lower parts kit.

I wasn't referring to putting the 6.8 upper on my AR10 lower, I have several AR15's to swap for that...

 

[Maverick223]

Neither is anything like a 7.62x51 NATO, which is getting shot out to a mile in M14's and still has effectiveness because of the 160gr loading.

I disagree, the .308 is nowhere near a 1mi. cartridge. It is more like 1200yd. cartridge at best (especially in that rifle), and effectively an 800yd. cartridge/rifle. 6.5Grendel roughly equal, but slightly inferior to the .308Win. For 1mi. you need an absolute minimum of 7mmRM or .300WM with the best bullets, and preferably something a bit larger just to stay supersonic.

 

[Slim Pickens]

About the only thing to swap between an AR15 and AR10 is the lower parts kit.

I don't know about the Armalite AR10, but the DPMS LR308 uses a slightly different lower parts kit from an AR15. The takedown pins are longer on the 308. An AR15 trigger group will work in an LR308, but some manufacturers do offer a 308 specific trigger group, presumably with a heavier hammer spring. I have used a Chip McCormick trigger in my LR308 for several hundred rounds without issue.

I bought a 6.8 for deer hunting before I got the 308. If I had the 308 first, I probably never would have started with the 6.8. The 6.8 does offer some advantages, though. If you want to build a very lightweight or compact rifle, the 6.8 can fill that role better than the 308. If you want to SBR it, the 6.8 will retain most of its energy, the 308 would just give more flash and noise in a short barrel.

 

[Ratdog68]

My upper finally arrived, so my 6.8 SPC II is together and ready for a range trip.

Lower is an Aero Precision with DPMS LPK and a TAPCO T6 stock. Upper is an AR Performance offering with a 16" recon profiled 1:11.25 twist 5R rifling barrel of chrome moly steel and nitro-carburized. YHM Diamond 9" mid-length gas free float forearm with end cap, pinned Kobel single rail gas block, ITS Superbolt of 9310 steel, and a tactical latch on the charging handle. MAGPUL MBUS F/R sights and a Pentax HS20 reflex red dot, MAGPUL AFG and MAGPUL XTM rail panels. Harris bi-pod and the single point sling will attach via a YHM single point adapter plate between the lower and the stock. C-Products mags with MAGPULS installed. This rifle barrel/chamber should easily handle the hottest loads allowable for the capacity of the 6.8 SPC magazine length restriction.

 

[Hatterasguy]

I plan on buying a rifle in 6.8 when NATO adopts it.


Personaly I would buy an LWRC REPR, they are the nicest AR10's around IMHO.

 

[Ratdog68]

I plan on buying a rifle in 6.8 when NATO adopts it.


Personaly I would buy an LWRC REPR, they are the nicest AR10's around IMHO.

The Jordanian Palace Guards are going to using them to protect the king... they went with the LWRC offering.

 

[darkknight]

standard ar uppers and 68 uppers are comparable. ammo cost is higher but no higher than any other quality 5.56 round. hornady tap and hornady red plastic tip bullets both cost about 17.99 a box. but you are getting a bigger round with more potential imo. I like the caliber and thus bought it. the best peron to talk to is justin. he knows more about 6.8x43 than anyone else. just make sure you get a spec II chamber. 1-10 will work but 1-11/1-12 work best. and more companies seem to be producing the cartridge so i think it will continue to grow. but it wont be 30/06 for a long time if ever. just my .02 ymmv.