642 Club Part Deux

[Brassman]

I don't mean to scare anyone, just be careful!!!!!

 

[jad0110]

A nice, light shooting load for me is a 148 grain wadcutter over 3.0 or 3.2 grains of Winchester 231. The minimum recommended in my reloading manual for W231 is 2.9. Much less than that and you risk squibs or a dangerous spike in pressure.

 

[doc540]

Thanks for the warning, but Momma din't raise no fo'!

I was shooting up a hodge podge of old .38 ammo, and that round was one of a group of Remington-Peters rounds.


They were factory loads and hotter'n shlt. I'd only fired about eight or nine rounds when that one split in the cylinder of the Model 36.

I didn't torch off another one after that and will dispose of them all.

 

[TBT]

How do you dispose of ammunition though? Other than shooting it of course. lol

 

[doc540]

Either the people that own the range or my gunsmith will dispose of it properly.

 

[jt1]

jad - 148gr WC over 3.0 grs of W231. Any idea how many fps those loads would be moving? Bullet speed is the only reference I have for judging felt recoil. How do they compare to BB or GD in felt recoil to you? I'm trying to give the Indys some idea of what to expect.

 

[electrode1998]

Alx.,
That shows you how much I am paying attention these days, I did not realize that was a B+W pic insted of a color one.

Nem,
I always carry my 642, but I felt my collection was lacking something without the 1911 bottomfeeder. We shall never talk of the bottom feeder here again even though it is fun to shoot. My little wheel friend gets plenty of travel time though.

E'trode

 

[electrode1998]

Oops double post
Alx.,
That shows you how much I am paying attention these days, I did not realize that was a B+W pic insted of a color one.

Nem,
I always carry my 642, but I felt my collection was lacking something without the 1911 bottomfeeder. We shall never talk of the bottom feeder here again even though it is fun to shoot. My little wheel friend gets plenty of travel time though.

E'trode

P.S. Nem. I love the star wars graphic. I am still figuring out how to do them.

 

[jfh]

"...148gr WC over 3.0 grs of W231. Any idea how many fps those loads would be moving?"

I checked that load out in the Ammoguide online database. It turns out it was entered there--"maxvelocity" had provided it. He reported 747 fps when it was shot from a S&W 52 semiauto.

Translating that to 2" barrel performance takes 1) a nominal drop for about 1.5" of barrel, and 2) something for the cylinder-barrel gap. My guess is that it would produce perhaps 600-625 fps shot from a 2" barrel j-frame.

The specs for the GDSB 38+P-135-gr factory loads call for a minimum of about 860 fps from a 2" barrel. The 38 Special 'standard' is a 158-gr. LRN running at about 755 fps.

The 158 @ 755 = 200 ft. lbs.
The 135 @ 860 = 230 ft. lbs, and 240 @ 900 (a typical report from some guns)
The 148 @ 650 = 139 ft. lbs; at 600 fps--118 ft lbs.

At these speeds, you should be able to watch the bullet in flight.

Jim H.

 

[DAdams]

Time Stands Still

At these speeds, you should be able to watch the bullet in flight.

I witnessed this phenom for the first time a couple of weeks ago. We were at the range watching a couple guys launch .45 flying ashtrays subsonic through a Colt New Agent. I felt Bionic, I saw the bullet leave the barrel and was able to follow it to the target. It was like watching in slow motion. Very cool I might add.

 

[AStone]

We shall never talk of the bottom feeder here again even though it is fun to shoot.

E'trode, I hope that you and others took my "bottomfeeder" chide as fun among friends.

I have no problem with them being woven into our conversation.
I know a lot of club members own them and like them.

 

[Alx]

The way to "dispose" of an unfired round of ammo is to take it apart, with an inertial bullet puller, which is a hammer-like device with a hollow head and a removable cap, --- the bullet goes in, is held by the case rim, with an empty space in front of the bullet, you hit the hammer on a hard surface, the bulllet is pulled forward from the case by the high g-forces, the powder spills out of the shell inside the enclosed bullet puller head, and the shell casing is left with its primer intact. Bullet, powder, and shell are all separated and contained within the bullet puller, without the round being fired. Then the cap of the pulller is unscrewed, and the contents can be poured out.

 

[45fanatic]

Although I prefer to carry my G30 (45 acp) it's not always possible, in those cases I carry my S&W 642 fitted with Barami Hipgrip, Tyler Tee (I have large hands) and a trigger shoe (not sure why?)- I carry IWB or pocket, very easy to grab in a hurry & out the door! Pleased to see that there are so many posts, I will take the time to go through & learn from you all, thank you! Phil

 

[jad0110]

jad - 148gr WC over 3.0 grs of W231. Any idea how many fps those loads would be moving?

I'll look it up in my reloading manual, as I don't quite recall. Under 700 fps though. jfh's figures are probably correct, but I'll see what my book says about it.

As for felt recoil, I checked my gun log and have actually never fired those through my 642. The 148s have been used exclusively in my S&W Model 14, where they feel like 22 Mags on steroids. Not much recoil. The only reloads I've fired through my 642 are:

158 RNFP cast bullets over 4.0 grains W231. This load does kick, but less than any factory non +P ammo I've tried. I'd describe the felt recoil as being on the lighter side of moderate, but that's just me. 642 recoil doesn't bother me too much. The heaviest recoiling load I've tried is the Remington 158 grain LSWCHP +P, which I'd say is on the strong side of moderate. I've been meaning to try the BB non +P, but haven't gotten around to ordering any yet.

The way to "dispose" of an unfired round of ammo is to take it apart, with an inertial bullet puller, which is a hammer-like device with a hollow head and a removable cap, --- the bullet goes in, is held by the case rim, with an empty space in front of the bullet, you hit the hammer on a hard surface, the bulllet is pulled forward from the case by the high g-forces, the powder spills out of the shell inside the enclosed bullet puller head, and the shell casing is left with its primer intact. Bullet, powder, and shell are all separated and contained within the bullet puller, without the round being fired. Then the cap of the pulller is unscrewed, and the contents can be poured out.

Then you can just "shoot" the primer next time at the range or let it sit in lye for a few days - that should neutralize the primer.

 

[TBT]

Good info. I've always wondered what the correct way to do that was. I remember my uncle burying ammunition at one point when I was a kid lol.

 

[electrode1998]

bottomfeeder comment

Hey Nem.,
No problem man, I can take lots of jokes. I can't wait to get to the new range and fire my guns at it. It is cut into the middle of a sugar cane field.

Later,
e'trode

 

[jt1]

jfh, jad - Thanks for the ammo info, hope this helps you Indy. As for the BB Standard vs +P, there is a fair difference. The +P is quite sharp and the Standard reminds me a of a .45, more of a push. I have no problem with either one but the standard is a bit faster back on target and seems quite sufficent as a carry load, I have the +P as a reload.

45fanatic - Welcome to the 642 Club, It's good to have you with us. I can understand the Hipgrip and Tyler T, but I'm not to sure about the trigger shoe. If there is not a real good reason to add something to a CCW you are probably better off without it. There are enought things to go wrong without adding more, especially to the trigger.

 

[rdrancher]

Howdy fellow clubbers!

Here's a link to my very surprising Buffalo Bore test.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=337288

rd

 

[jt1]

ALL - I have asked Tim Sundles to comment on the Buffalo Bore test. These are suprising results based upon what I have seen elsewhere and from the information Tim has given me over the past few months. This is my carry round so I am most interested. rd, thanks for the test info. We shall see....

 

[Iggy]

I agree with Jt1 about the trigger shoe on a CC gun.. There is that possibility of snagging that rascal as you holster it or put it in a pocket if it is wider than the frame and trigger guard of the gun.


Now with that sage advice and $2.00, you might be able to get a cup of coffee!!

 

[Photoman]

doc540: I've got a Winchester shell (factory loaded CorBon DPX) that looks just like that after shooting in my 642. Fired fine but sure doesn't do much for confidence.

 

[AStone]

...the trigger shoe on a CC gun.. There is that possibility of snagging that rascal as you holster it or put it in a pocket...

Iggy, it's interesting that you raise that issue.

A while back, I went through a period of wondering if, when holstering my x42 in my Desantis OWB,
it could accidentally fire if the "point" of the trigger cover on the holster slid into the trigger guard during re-holstering.

After extensive testing, I decided there's not a chance of that happening with this particular combination. (ymmv)

But it's reassuring to know that great minds think alike.

I can't wait to get to the new range and fire my guns at it. It is cut into the middle of a sugar cane field.

E'trode: a firing range in a sugar cane field?

Sweet!
_________

Thank you. I'll be here all week.

 

[Brassman]

Sweet? You got that right....and safe too? (no ass-partames) Sweeter than honey and wine....., no make that beer, the wheat variety too!

 

[rdrancher]

I have asked Tim Sundles to comment on the Buffalo Bore test. These are suprising results based upon what I have seen elsewhere and from the information Tim has given me over the past few months.

Well jt, if you can get anyone at BB to respond to anything, you're a bigger fella than me. They have not responded to any of the emails that I have sent to them since my order was accidentally returned last August by UPS.

I'm not harboring a grudge of any sort, in fact, I purchased quite a few boxes of their ammo for my 642 and SP101 locally.

rd

 

[jt1]

I posted this on the original thread and place it here for the official Club record:

I asked Tim to respond as soon as I read the OP:

From: "Tim Sundles" <[email protected]>
To:<[email protected] t>
Subject: Re: (20C) Ammo test at THR
Date: 05. February 2008 20:00:42

We've fired many many many of these loads into Bal Gel of different types and they work very well in bal. gel. We also know of a couple bad guys that have been shot with this load and they are both dead. However, we've never tested them in water and don't think water represents anything meaningful in terms of usefulness on humans.

I'm absolutely swamped right now and simply don't have the time to get involved on the Internet, but feel free to post this email if you like.

Best Regards,

Tim Sundles

----- Original Message -----
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected] ; [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 7:27 PM
Subject: (20C) Ammo test at THR

Tim,

Here is a test of the (20C) Standard pressure 158gr .38 spcl conducted by one of our members. Can you comment? As you know I carry this round I am most interested. It is located in the revolver forum.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=337288

Thanks,
jack

While I have not conducted any formal testing myself, the results I have seen on various hard targets still leaves me with a good feeling about this round. Other tests and opinions by knowledgeable folks seem to indicate the same. rd, I do not totally reject your test results and I am looking forward to seeing what you find by further investigation. My X42's still have BB on board.