642 Club Part Deux

[lagniappe]

Thanks for Encouragement

Thanks to everyone for their encouragement. Will let all know when I get to a range.

Here's another question - which speedloaders work with the Crimson Trace Laser Grips? I have read that not all speedloaders work with all grips. Any experience with safariland and hks with this setup? The strip doesn't yet appeal to me, but that may come.

Here's my new 642 with Crimson Trace Laser Grip.

 

[AStone]

Lagn, I concur with JT's advice re the full ( = 3-finger) Hogue Monogrips for practice (at least, to start). Mine (see below) wears a set permanently (since I don't pocket carry mine) and they add tremendously to control for me.

I agree also with 308: the recoil is not that bad once you get used to it, develop proper grip/technique, etc.

The thing that flagged a potential problem for me was your statement in your first post that you couldn't manage to pull the trigger with one hand. I don't want to make any projections here, let alone offend (that is not my intention), but if for some medical reason one hand is weak, and if the other is affected to a lesser extent, then control might be a bit more of a challenge for you, especially with the smaller 2-finger grips.

It can be managed, but I'm just erring on the safe side.

I also think MDP's suggestion of renting a K-frame revolver in .38 spl to start with and learn the basic handgun technique is a great idea. Having a bit larger frame to offer a bigger grip and tame that recoil a bit couldn't hurt. Then, it's an easier step over to the 642.

Just some thoughts.

Nem

 

[DAdams]

Why is That Not a Surprise

...seems the major threat is now is a lot closer to home

Thanks for the heads-up.

Look forward to your august counsel.

Couple of chips off the old blocks there jt1? Must have been blessed with their Mother's good looks.

At Ease, You Know the Drill.

 

[thesecond]

rolandx: The model number (and dash-iteration) is found on the yoke/crane, when you open up the cylinder. Likely you got a 642-1 from the S&W run of 3,000 to 4,000 no-locks back in July/August 2008. (I'm surprised there any left unsold, btw.)

Also, CT grips are a good training aid to practice dry-firing, if you just can't wait to buy 'em and put 'em on (I couldn't either, I've been a supporter of CT products for over ten years). You can dry-fire at static targets (check to ensure 642 is not loaded with live round .... and then check again), and the laser is one sure way to analyze your 'trigger-wobble-zone'. instant feedback to improve/adjust trigger technique/control.

MAKE SURE YOU CHECK AND DOUBLE CHECKTO ENSURE THERE ARE NO LIVE ROUNDS IN THE GUN BEFORE DRY-FIRING!

Lagniappe: You've gotten great advice here from the senior club thread guys. I'll add a few suggestions .... start with non-+P ammo (.38 spl), when at the range, 130 grain fmjs (Remington UMC, Magtech or similar) and 148 grain wadcutters are good and soft-recoiling, too. You have CT grips, hopefully the 305's or 405's, which cover the 'backstrap' of the 642 (the exposed metal contacting your palm vertically, between thumb and forefinger). This is where the felt recoil stings people.

Practice dry-firing as much as possible (buy some snap caps, e.g., Pachmayr A-zoom, anodized aluminum colored red to distinguish from live ammo), watching tv, after a workout, before bed, upon waking, whenever. Practice strong and weak-hand.

MAKE SURE YOU CHECK AND DOUBLE CHECKTO ENSURE NO LIVE ROUNDS ARE IN THE GUN BEFORE DRY-FIRING!

This will make your trigger pull consistent and will strengthen your hands/trigger finger. Wouldn't hurt to get a physical rehab-'squeeze' ball, or getting a set of small 2 1/2-5 lb. dumbells (just need to hold the dumbells at your side, do 'shoulder shrugs', roll them in your hand, etc.,), b/c the gripping is the important thing to develop hand strength both to better control the gun and to better absorb recoil. You can exercise your hands, when not dry-firing. It is key that you try to continuing increasing the ability of your muscles to do work - by 'triggering' them or stimulating them - so that when 'performance' is required (whether at the range or, God forbid, in a self-defense situation) your muscles have both the capacity and memory to do it.

When you get to the range to practice, you don't need to shoot all the ammo at once. Work your way up incrementally, from 5-10 rounds, at first. Then spend time dry-firing at home between sessions. It will be more economical, you will notice faster improvement, and you will have less risk of fatigue/shock injury to your hands. If you shoot too many rounds in one session (particularly the first range session) you may get injured, setting you back weeks or months.

For example, 5-10 rounds your first range trip on Monday, target at 3 yards. Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday: 100 dry-fire pulls (sets of 10-20 at a time) EACH DAY. The following Monday, 10-15 rounds. T,W,Th,F,S,Sun: 100-150 dry-fire pulls (sets of 10-20 at a time) EACH DAY. The following Monday, again, 15-20 rounds, target at 5 yards. Incrementality is key, work your way up, build strength and recoil tolerance, over time.

MAKE SURE TO CHECK AND DOUBLE CHECK TO ENSURE THERE ARE NO LIVE ROUNDS IN THE GUN BEFORE DRY-FIRING!

Be safe and good luck! (And there's plenty more info. in this amazingly long instructive club thread, if and when you have the time.)

 

[lagniappe]

Ammo for beginner

Still struggling for ammo here. Would either of these 2 work for beginning shooting with the SW642.

PMC 38 Special 132gr FMJ
Federal American Eagle 38 Special 130gr FMJ

Lagniappe

 

[thesecond]

Lagniappe: Yes, those should be a good start for ammo (.38 special non +P, 130 grain), for targets at the range. I think the American Eagle are equivalent to either the Remington/Winchester target ammo (someone else can clarify on this point, I believe AE are made by one of those companies, or by Federal, but in any event, standard pressure and around 130 grains is good for first time DAO-double-action only- snub shooters). Buy a few boxes of that (always good to have a few hundred rounds of target ammo). Work your way up with the number of rounds you shoot each session. Start slow, stop before you get fatigued or feel pain in your hands, build up your grip strength/recoil tolerance, incrementally.

 

[wrs840]

lagniappe: I'm currently using American Eagle 38 Sp 158gr LRN as "paractice ammo" and Winchester White Box 125gr +P JHP as carry ammo.

Every trip to the range (once or twice a week), I shoot ten of the American Eagle and fifteen of the WWB. I can't tell any difference in recoil... ...maybe due to the respective bullet weights, and I don't find the recoil objectionable at all. This is through a relatively-new 442 non-lock with factory grips. My only problem is I tend to "point" a tad high with this revolver, and have to work on tilting down slightly to get a faster proper sight picture. After 25 rounds per trip, I switch to another gun, usually a .40 auto lately, because of relatively plentiful ammo, and I could sure stand the practice with it too...

I say shoot whatever you can find through your 642, though. Great piece, takes practice though. The good news for me is that I love practicing with it. I carry speed strips and load with them at the range because that process benefits from the practice too.

Regards,
Les

 

[lagniappe]

Range Ammo

Thanks for all your help. I found some of these in stock so ordered and should get soon. I was having trouble finding some non plus p in stock anywhere. Thru another person I have goodles of plus p ordered but wanted to get some others in for first range forays. Think I will also take the suggestion to schedule a range class/session with a K frame - be even better if I can shoot the J Frame as a last part of this class. I think I'll get there!

Found a thin drag line on my cylinder - freaked out but read on the forum that it is not unusual. I am really careful how I close it, so I know it's not from wild antics on my part.

 

[wrs840]

Found a thin drag line on my cylinder...

Here's a succinct but info-intensive answer on that lifted from elsewhere on the interweb:

Technically, the drag line, or turn line, isn't caused by the mechanism that turns the cylinder -- that's enclosed in the frame to the rear of the cylinder -- but the bolt stop, which snaps into the notch in the cylinder to hold the chamber into alignment with the barrel when the gun fires.

It's perfectly normal ...to eliminate it you'd have to remove so much of the bolt stop head (and so thoroughly messed with the bolt stop's timing) that the cylinder is in danger of floating when the round fires...

In other words, don't worry about it...

les

 

[CombatArmsUSAF]

Got a question for you guys:

I have large hands and the only way I can get a comfortable trigger pull on the 642 with the stock boot grips is to use the middle pad of my trigger finger.

Is this normal for guys with large hands and the small boot grips? or is it a flaw in my fundamentals???

 

[fiVe]

Now, where's King fiVe?

fiVe lurks sporadically. (Extra super busy at work.)

 

[AStone]

fiVe lurks sporadically. (Extra super busy at work.)

That's two of us on both counts.

Good to see so many long standing members still around the club house.

Be glad there's one place in the world
Where everybody knows your name,
And they're always glad you came;
You want to go where people know,
People are all the same;
You want to go where everybody knows your name.

 

[DAdams]

Grip/Finger Placement

CombatarmsUSAF

I have large hands and the only way I can get a comfortable trigger pull on the 642 with the stock boot grips is to use the middle pad of my trigger finger.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BTT/is_173_29/ai_n7578402/

See if this is any help. It doesn't really come down to what's necessarily "comfortable" it comes down to what works right and then repetitive practice to attain repeatability/accuracy through muscle memory.

http://www.wonderhowto.com/how-to/video/how-to-shoot-a-revolver-like-pro-jerry-miculek-276392/view/

You will see in lesson three that Jerry uses the center pad as an acceptable finger location method where the fingertip acts as a stop/position reference indictation on the frame for a more controlled staged and accurate shot. Might not be as fast ..... but if it is indeed "more comfortable" at least you know it is blessed by the "master".

 

[jt1]

Couple of chips off the old blocks there jt1?

DA - Nephews, and their mother is just horrified by those photos......

lagniappe - On the speed strip/speedloader subject:

After trying various reload carry options I have been using speed strips configured as shown in the pic below. This is the fastest way for me to reload and although I am giving up one round using this method I have found that it takes me just as long to load the fifth single round as it does to load all four rounds loading two at a time. I load two and pull up to release from the strip, then without changing my grip I load the other two and pull down to release the last two. Drop the strip and close the cylinder. I find that about 80% (edit - now about 90%, if I have been training regularly) of the time I can get the empty chamber to close under the firing pin and I am ready to go. When I don't get the proper alignment it is just a matter of an immediate action drill (click, bang) which is good training anyway. With this method I can also just load two and go if I need more rounds right now. Like anything else it takes practice but can I reload a lot faster than I can type. As has been noted before in a normal threat environment it is unlikely you will need to reload to reduce a threat but you just never know and I will continue to practice. I like speedloaders as well and they can be very fast with practice but the speed strips are so easy for me to carry I almost always go with them.

As for the Speed loader/Speed Strips issue, there is more here than meets the eye. In small frame revolvers like the X42 you do not get a straight line shot to insert a speed loader, rather you have to angle it into the cylinder and insert the rounds about half way and then "jiggle" them a bit to get them all in. Some folks will modify the left side grip to gain more clearance and this helps to some degree, but it still takes a fair amount of practice to master and remain proficient. They are a bit difficult to conceal and they can rattle a little if not properly secured. The speed strips are easy to conceal and carry and can be quite fast with practice and are generally my first choice. Having said that, the speed loader will load fiVe rounds faster than speed strips for a well trained and practiced shooter.

I like the HKS 36:


My prefered speed load setup:

 

[DAdams]

jt1

Nephews, and their mother is just horrified by those photos......

That is just too funny. Do they still get to go out with Uncle jt or are you off limits?

BTW post your double action speedload carry on the post for the guy asking about the Smart Carry. That was exactly the photo that came to mind when I referenced your rig.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=456562

their mother is just horrified by those photos

That is just killing me. I still can't get over it.

 

[308win]

Nephews, and their mother is just horrified by those photos......

Why, does she think her children are homely or something?

 

[tommy610]

Low recoil ammo

lagniappe - I just ordered some .38 ammo from Ten-X. I'd come across it elsewhere on the web where people were looking for light loads. I wanted some for my family to try - so I don't scare them away. Cabelas sells it, and you can also order directly from Ten-X. See here: http://www.tenxammo.com/

I ordered the 105gr TFP. That's supposed to be the least recoiling round. I can't testify as to how it worked out for me yet... it should be here in a few days. They had it sitting there on the shelf ready to ship. I'll try a few rounds and check it out, and then have my son try it. I'm hoping it turns out to be a fun load (but it ain't cheap).

 

[wjh2657]

"Got a question for you guys:

I have large hands and the only way I can get a comfortable trigger pull on the 642 with the stock boot grips is to use the middle pad of my trigger finger.

Is this normal for guys with large hands and the small boot grips? or is it a flaw in my fundamentals???"

I have small hands and I have gone to S&W extended grips on 642 and 637 and Pachmayr Compacs on 60 and 640. I gave up trying to learn special techniques for boot grips. The extended grips conceal well in a pocket holster and the Pachys do fine in a OWB under a sweater. Actually I just swapped out the extended grips that came on 60 and 640 when I put the Pachmayrs on them.

See below. The 317 wears whichever grips I am using on the seasonal carry.

 

[m2steven]

As far as 5 slot 38 special speed loaders, I purchased 6 hks speedloaders model 36A. They work well with the CT laser grips. Just open the barrel,
dump contents, put the speedloader contents in the cylinders, give a twist and the bullets will fall into the chambers as if my magic and magnetism (or gravity). They are easy to load and easier to unload into the gun. My 642 with CT grips loves them.

 

[SWG]

Hi All another new guy to your forum. I get to pick up a new 642 next Sat. I sent a really sweet nickel plated 442 in because the frame cracked! BAD MOJO!! Got to love Ca. Came across this site by accident and really like it!
Now for the question, How to clean this this one and not screw up the clear coat finish!!!!
Thanks, Steve

 

[AStone]

SWG, welcome to the fold.

Others will be along shortly with an answer to your cleaning question.
(I just sweep floors here; no technical knowledge.)

...but if it is indeed "more comfortable" at least you know it is blessed by the "master".

Master? Dude, no kidding.

If all of us could do this, bottom feeders would be unnecessary.

 

[theoneandonlyhoppy]

Another 642 convert.

I replaced my ten year carry piece (Kel-Tec P11) with a 642. My recent need for progressive bifocals really slowed my sight/target acquisition time and I wanted to switch to a laser sight. The offerings for the P11 were poor so I decided the 642 with a set of LG-105 Crimson Trace grips would fit the bill nicely.

While waiting for my grips and speed strips I spent the time dry firing the piece and loading some +P test rounds. The trigger smoothed out some, but I went ahead and ordered a spring set too. A week went by and the grips came in so I installed them, set the dot up to align it with the pistol sights and headed to the range. The spring set hadn’t come in yet and I really wanted to test the piece as-is before I changed anything in the fire control area.

I already had a good supply of 158gr LSWC that I shoot from my Ruger GP100 so I packed a hundred of them along with the fifty 125gr JHP +P rounds I wanted to test. I started out with a couple of cylinders of the 158’s to tweak the laser. I found the 642 shot to POA with the iron sights and the laser needed very little tweaking to get it right on target. I then started to shoot my 125gr test rounds to find which would be the best performer out of the little revolver. The test rounds were stout, but not too bad and before long I found a load that grouped very well at 15 yards.

When I was finished with my testing it was time to just play around for the rest of the session with the lead rounds. I shot the ninety lead rounds and really gave the 642 a work out, as well as my hand. Recoil wasn’t that bad that I wanted to stop, but my trigger finger was sore and my thumb had the hide worn off. I fixed the thumb at the range with a patch and piece of duct tape (must remember to put more bandaids in the shooting bag ).

Completely disassembled the pistol tonight. Polished the hammer/sear surfaces as well as the hammer, trigger and cylinder stop posts. I installed the Wolf 15lb trigger reset spring. The trigger is still somewhat heavy compared to my GP100, but very smooth and predictable.

Lessons learned:
Don’t shoot that much ammo without a glove on. Over twenty four hours later my trigger finger is still numb not to mention the slight abrasion my thumb got from the cylinder release.

The factory hammer spring is the minimum weight I would use. I use CCI primers in my reloads and firing pin strike is fairly light, not to the point of a light strike condition, but I’ve seen better primer dents.

The Crimson trace laser is worth every penny I paid. At 15 yards I had no problem putting rounds into a paper plate one handed, from the hip.

I had no idea that the basic 642 was a unisex model.


A comprehensive test.


I'll be wearing a glove the next time.


15 yards, one handed, from the hip.


Hoppy

 

[AStone]

Welcome in, Hoppy. We appreciate detailed first posts, especially with pics.
(Wow. Two new members in one 24 hour period. Is this a great handgun or what?)

Gentle reminder: the mule isn't a "pistol" (= semi-auto) but a revolver.

And yes, moderation is the key to shooting le mule, especially with +p rnds.

Speaking of point shooting with a snub, what do you think of this?

 

[indiandave]

SWC, I use Hoppe's #9 to clean all my guns. It has never hurt the finish on my 642. I use a bore brush on the barrel followed by a jag and patches until ithey come out clean.

On the chambers I use a chamber brush( Brownell's sells them) also followed by the jag and pacthes. The chamber brush is thicker and makes cleaning the chambers fast.

If the smell of hoppe's is too much for you try M-Pro 7. It also will not hurt the finnish of your gun.

 

[thesecond]

Hoppy, my hand looked like that the first time with the CT-105's (some don't mind the slim-profile tradeoff). Might want to get that backstrap covered on your 642 (Ct-305/405's, hogue monogrip shaved down, cut foam and duct/electrical tape). Militec-1 and heating dryer (makes for an easy to swab/clean snubby). YMMV, and welcome.