642 Problem

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mquaack

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Jul 17, 2005
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Louisville, KY
All, I have had my new 642 for about 6 months now. Shot only 5 rounds since I bought it.

I noticed cleaning it today that the end of the barrel is kinda lopsided.

It looks like it was not milled correct.

Please let me know if i should send it back or is it nothing to worry about.

Thanks

Here are some pics.

DSC00134.gif

DSC00133.gif

DSC00132.gif

DSC00131.gif
 
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Mquaaack,

Go over to the 642 Club.
Go to the last page.
Post your question.
(No need to read the whole thread;
you can do that later if you wish.)

There are many, many, many 642 owners there
who will help you resolve this issue.

I'll also let them know you've posted here.

Nem
 
MQ,

Based on those images,
I agree: "lopsided".

(Thanks for adding more images,
and for making sure the 642 was unloaded. ;) )

IMO, either call SW,
or take it to a smith.

At least hold off shooting it again until
more knowledgeable (than me) 642 owners offer some advice.

Please, keep us posted about the outcome.

Nem
 
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mquaack and Nem - Believe it or not what you see is normal. All of my S&W revolvers exhibit a similar appearance. I think it has to do with the lands and grooves ending at the crown of the barrel. Here is a pic of my 642. My 629 and mod. 10 are more or less the same. mquaack, I think your pics look somewhat exaggerated because of the focus. If your's looks similar to my photo, I don't think you have a problem. Hopefully we will get more opinions soon. Interestingly, my Python and Trooper mkIII appear perfectly round as do all of my autoloaders.

P7110022-1.jpg
 
JT1,

I compared my 642 to yours and it does look pretty close to the same. Thanks for your pic and post. Interesting that it is rough looking like that on the end. I would like to see if others are like that and some more pics.
 
jt1: Excellent catch here.

mquaack: My 642 looks almost identical to yours and jt1's. I will try to post a pic later, and I'm so glad this turned out to be a non-problem.
 
Well, I'll be darned. You're right.

Mine is the same. The irregularity is on mine seems to be on a slightly different part of the barrel, but it's there.

Funny, I never noticed it. Should have checked it when I looked at Mquaack's images.

Good call, JT.

I'm still working to understand why it looks that way ...

Nem
 
Vern, I don't have enough knowledge of gun production and smithing to understand that.

So, you think it's not normal, even though several of us seem to have similar shaped barrels?

Could you offer a bit more explanation for us dummies? (speaking only for myself, of course) :eek:

Thnx.
 
Vern, I don't have enough knowledge of gun production and smithing to understand that.

So, you think it's not normal, even though several of us seem to have similar shaped barrels?

Could you offer a bit more explanation for us dummies? (speaking only for myself, of course)

At one time S&W barrels were pinned (that's the pinned in "pinned and recessed") A hole passed through the gun from side to side , just nicking the threads of the barrel, and a pin driven into the hole locked the barrel in place.

The modern technique is to slightly change the dimensions of the threaded barrel shank to a crush fit. The barrel is screwed in with a special fixture, and it stays in place without the pin. But the force applied can distort the barrel.

One common distortion seen is a slightly reduced bore diameter in the shank. I think these distorted barrels are also a product of that fixture.

And no, they are not normal.
 
The barrel isn't screwed in by torquing the crown of the muzzle, though.
 
Sounds like we need to communicate with SW about this.
Maybe we can send them some images to their customer service department?

Vern, what do you see as a potential danger in this?

Any danger to a user shooting one?

I ask because I was planning to use this gun at the range tomorrow.

Now, I wonder about doing it... :uhoh:
 
The barrel isn't screwed in by torquing the crown of the muzzle, though.
Normally, no. but it's possible these barrels were misaligned in the fixture.

Sounds like we need to communicate with SW about this.
Maybe we can send them some images to their customer service department?
Absolutely.

Vern, what do you see as a potential danger in this? Any danger to a user shooting one?

It depends on the degree of distortion -- some barrels shown here are barely out of round -- but the original pictures show clear distortion. This could be like shooting with a bore obstruction.

I ask because I was planning to use this gun at the range tomorrow.
I wouldn't do it -- not with serious distortion like in the first pictures.
 
OK, I'm not taking sides here ... not yet, anyway.

But, I just spoke with a handgun instructor at my range (by phone; he hasn't seen the gun), who claims from my description that JT's assessment is a more likely explanation: "the lands and grooves ending at the crown of the barrel".

Here's a really crummy shot of mine.
(Sorry: this little digicam won't do sharp closeups
even with both gun and camera sitting on a solid surface.)

I'm still taking this seriously until we reach a consensus about it.
 

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They do get distorted from time to time.

My 696 has a ring in the barrel where the crush fit quite literally did crush things. The gun shoots fine, and I doubt anybody at S&W could do a fix that would be much better, so I live with it.

As for the non-uniform crown of that 642, I'd have them take a look at it.
 
I just spoke with a handgun instructor at my range (by phone; he hasn't seen the gun), who claims from my description that JT's assessment is a more likely explanation: "the lands and grooves ending at the crown of the barrel".
Virtually all rifled firearms have "the lands and grooves ending at the crown of the barrel." But that first picture shows a lot more distortion than I can find on any gun in my safe!
 
It would be helpful if you could get the muzzle in focus.

My guess is that the barrel crowning operation was off center. Most of the older non-sleeve barrels are made from an extrusion. The barrel is drilled through, the barrel is threaded. Then the barrel is flipped around, and crowned.

A good drill wanders about .002" per inch, if something is off, it can be much much worse. If the barrel hole isn't drilled perfectly straight, the crown, which is applied later can be non-concentric. It doesn't have to be off by much for it to look terrible, because your eye is very good at determining if something is centered.

IMHO this is the most likely cause. If this is the case, you are probably fine. I'd call S&W anyways. You can probably get a new barrel out of it.
 
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If S&W won't do anything about it...

There's nothing stopping you from ordering a handheld 11-degree muzzle crown reamer and .357" pilot from Brownell's, and cleaning it up ever so carefully. ;)
 
I'm glad to see this post..... My new model 60 looks just like that.... but it shoots great....... so I'm not worried about it.... the only one that will get a good look at would be a BG. :what:

JP
 
If it doesn't hurt the performance, who cares? If it won't shoot right, then you may have a problem. Otherwise, I think you and S&W have more important things to do with your time than fixing a non-problem.
 
Well, some really good responses here. I have returned from the local sportsman's warehouse where the gun staff were kind enough to let me examine all the guns I desired and I spent an hour looking at just about everything they had. I can report that the only real issue of concern here is the lack of attention to detail that the manufactures are giving to final fit and finish of the guns they are letting out the door. Without exception, every J-frame I inspected (19 of them) exhibited the same type of deformation at the muzzle. I also looked at most all the other handguns and found that most of the revolvers had some degree of the same thing, but the Rugers seemed better overall than the others. None of the autoloaders I inspected had any deformation at all. While all this was going on a nice little crowd of folks started to assemble at the gun counter as all the gun clerks, the store manager, and I had just about every handgun in the place lined up on the counter and we are all staring down the barrel of these guns. After it was explained what we were doing and why we started to get help and opinions from the 10 or 12 people assembled at the counter. The opinions were very similar to the range of responses we have here. Then one of the older gentlemen (80-90?) in the assembled group offered this: What you are seeing is an optical illusion, in the old days all guns were hand finished before they were shipped and the barrels were "crowned", nowadays they just send out any old thing that that looks like a gun. Stick a bullet in there and you will see, he says. So they break out a .38 FMJ and stick it in the end of the barrel and the distortion disappears. What you see are the little lines of the grooves around the FMJ and the bore is indeed round. Everyone is impressed and the older gentleman says the last good gun they made and the last one I bought was back before the war. I want to ask what war, but he turns and walks away, smiling and shaking his head.

What I really learned from all of this is that the old guy was right. I knew it was true to some degree to begin with but as I inspected all those guns I saw a lot of fit and finish problems. One had the front of the cylinder so tight it was scarred all the way around from rubbing on the forcing cone. A few others guns had the lettering at an angle and one was locked up and we could not move the cylinder latch at all. None of these should have left the factory.

I do think the photos of the OP being out of focus really exaggerated the appearance of his bore and he states that his looks more or less like the photo I posted in my first response. Based on that I don't think his is any different than the rest and is probably ok. I am not an expert however and would recommended to you mquaack that you physical look at a few other 642's and compare for yourself (it can be quite interesting). Good luck and you are invited to join us over at the 642 club!

...the only one that will get a good look at would be a BG.
LOL! - This line alone makes this whole thread worth the effort.
 
If that were my gun, I'd slug the barrel with a soft lead .357 bullet shoved in from the rear. You'll have to use several sections of wood dowel rod about .34" or so wide. I'd then look carefully at the bullet and see how much of this ugly is being transferred to the finished product.

If the bullet is seriously deformed, in my mind the gun needs fixing. Some of these pics show crowns that are so seriously FUBAR that hardcast or brass jacketed full-power 357s might be either dangerous, or working at enough of an elevated pressure to accellerate gun wear. Again: that's what it LOOKS like. I could be wrong, but...if the bullets are coming out funky, I guarantee there's an accuracy issue at play.

---

I also find myself wondering whether or not "the checkout" could catch this. Not specifically, but...if you use the barrel/cylinder alignment check I recommend (strong light at the back of the UNLOADED cylinder, look down the barrel), then...well, I know *I* would have noticed some of these.

My Ruger and Charter Arms 357/38 guns respectively show NO signs of anything like this. And since I never shopped for an S&W J-Frame (esp. late vintage) I've not seen this up close.
 
I can't ascertain from the pictures the amount of distortion. However, the most important factor is how the gun functions. If it shoots ok, distortion isn't pretty but it's something I could live with.

IMO, YMMV.
 
I'd give it more than just a passing look, too.

None of my J, K, or L-frame Smith & Wesson wheelguns ever had a muzzle crown that looked like that. :(
 
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