69 grain Sierra Match King VV N135

[Joe Texas]

Since Varget has been so scarce, it’s nice to have alternatives. I found a local range with VV N135 for $22 per 1lb jug. I bought 3 lbs to use for 60-69 grain 223 and 150 grain 308 loads.

I was trying to find an equal for my 69 SMK over 24.5 grains of Varget 223 load. I found a good one with 69 grain Sierras and N135.

Tested with 22.6 to 23.4 grains of powder in .2 grain increments.

22.8 and 23.0 produced the best results. So I then played with seating depth using 22.9 grains.

I shot 5 rounds each seated from .005 to .030 off the lands in .005 increments. All seating depths with the 22.9 charge produced 5 shot sub MOA groups. I was surprised to find that .03 off did the best. Usually .005 is what my gun likes with 60 or 65 grain bullets.

Savage 12 FV .223 26” 1:9 twist heavy barrel
Boyd’s Thumbhole Varmit stock
Harris bipod and Caldwell Mini X (rear)
Seals 8-32 x 50

69 grain SMK
22.9 VV N135
Starline brass trimmed to 1.75
FGMM primer
C.O.A.L. 2.258 (.030 off lands)
2984 fps
SD 12.7
ES 29
.44” 5 shot group @ 100 yards

 

[sequins]

Glad to see Starline brass performing. Those are nice bullets too. Great load & nice rifle!

 

[TonyAngel]

Those are some good results. Ever give Berger bullets a try? Any increase in accuracy would be just picking nits as a practical matter, but sometimes you try things just to see if you can.

 

[Joe Texas]

Glad to see Starline brass performing. Those are nice bullets too. Great load & nice rifle!

Thanks! I’ve found that the Starline have a little less capacity than Winchester in .223 and they hold up pretty good over several firings so far with neck sizing. The primer pockets do get loose quick with hotter loads though. Starline in .308 has been pretty much apples to apples with Hornady.

 

[Joe Texas]

Those are some good results. Ever give Berger bullets a try? Any increase in accuracy would be just picking nits as a practical matter, but sometimes you try things just to see if you can.

Thanks! I’ve wanted to try Bergers but haven’t yet. Maybe soon.

 

[TBL65]

Good to know! I just picked up a Savage 12FV in 223 myself. Just got done prepping my LC brass for load development with hornady 68gr bthp match bullets!

I measured my max OAL the other day and got roughly 2.300”

what app/program are you using to get that data in the second picture?

 

[Joe Texas]

TBL65 - I think these Cabelas specials are about the best bolt gun value around if you don’t intend to carry it too far. I also have one in .308. Both have proven capable of half MOA with my best loads. I’ve never shot factory ammo out of either of them except for during the barrel break-in on the .308. That was done indoors at 25 yards so it doesn’t mean much. Still, the first 40 rounds were through one ragged hole with a clean, cold barrel for most of them.

That data is a screenshot from the app that supports the Caldwell G2 chronograph.

I think my chamber is really tight. I seem to have very little free bore. 60 grain VMax are jammed at around 2.22. The only bullets that I have had to seat long to get close to the lands have been Sierra 60 grain tipped match kings. Those are around 2.33. The .308 seems to have more room. Most of my loads for it have COLs about .01 longer than data suggests. Some even more. That gun likes just .005 - .010 jump. At least from my two examples it looks like Savage cut the chambers small on these compared to some other manufacturers. I wonder if that is true for most Savages or just these.

 

[TonyAngel]

Oh, and I forgot to mention it; but I shoot Varget too. Or actually, Varget is what I go to when I can’t get or just don’t have Reloader 15. Perhaps you might want to give some a try.
I also use a bullet seating depth gauge I got from midway. It replaces the bolt of the rifle to give you an exact measurement for each projectile

 

[Joe Texas]

Thanks, Tony. I use the Hornady OAL tool. I measure with 10 projectiles and take an average. Then I seat a bullet with my bolt and compare my findings. They are usually really close. High level precision loaders would tell us to use a tool that measures base to ogive rather than COAL. My method works for my purposes.

I just found a pound of RL 15 at a Bass Pro Shop. I’m gonna try it and see what all the fuss is about. That gives me at least 2 viable alternatives to help stretch out the last of my Varget.

 

[Joe Texas]

Varget alternative attempt #2

Range report with RE-15:
I loaded two RE-15 ladders, .308 and .223.
I used the same components and COL as my Varget/VV N135 loads to insure the only variable was the powder type and charge. All groups shot from a distance of 100 yards.

Savage 12 FV 26” barrel 1:10 twist
.308 Winchester
150 grain Sierra Game King
(Usually use 44.4 grains Varget)
RE-15 44.2 - 45.1 grains in .1 grain increments
5 rounds each charge (50 total)
Winchester brass
FGMM primers
COL 2.797 (.005 off lands)

I see from my testing why RE-15 is a favorite in .308. It seemed to be okay with almost every charge weight and above average in a couple. I have gotten tighter groups in my gun with IMR 4064 and Varget though. The best group was @ 44.5 grains - All five touching at 13/16 of an inch.

Savage 12FV 26” barrel 1:9 twist
.223 Remington
69 grain Sierra Match King
(Usually use 24.5 Varget)
RE-15 24.0 - 25.0 in .2 grain increments
5 rounds each charge (30 total)
Starline brass
FGMM primers
COL 2.258 (.030 off lands)

Results were mediocre in .223.
Best 5 shot group of exactly 1” was @24.2 grains.
Chronograph malfunctioned during this group. I will attach pic of second best result @ 25 grains. I think I opened this group up with one poorly executed shot. 25.0 grains RE-15 will be the load I use in the event I use that powder with 69 SMKs. I probably won’t though unless I run out of options. Varget and N135 performed much better for me. Also,the Varget accuracy node in my gun was 24.3 - 24.6. That gives me some room for error in powder dispensing.

* For giggles, I shot a ten round string with my 69 SMK/22.9 grains N135. The single-digit standard deviation confirmed my previous results. A 10 shot string of 69SMK/24.5 grains Varget produced an 1.25” ten round group and had a standard deviation of 21.7.

*FYI - FWIW, I’m reloading the .223 brass now with 22.9 grains VVN135/69 SMKs. I’ll save the RE-15 for .308.

 

[MarshallDodge]

Do you trickle your powder? RL15 is a good powder but it doesn't flow through a measure very well.

I don't have any groups to show, my notes just say it was a good load, but I've had success with 24.8 RL15 behind a Hornady 68 BTHP.

TAC is another one you may want to try according to my notes. Benchmark and H322 won't always give the highest velocity but they can be very accurate and flow well through a measure.

 

[Joe Texas]

Do you trickle your powder? RL15 is a good powder but it doesn't flow through a measure very well.

I don't have any groups to show, my notes just say it was a good load, but I've had success with 24.8 RL15 behind a Hornady 68 BTHP.

TAC is another one you may want to try according to my notes. Benchmark and H322 won't always give the highest velocity but they can be very accurate and flow well through a measure.

I weigh every charge. I’ve never owned a powder measure or trickler. I use dippers and a funnel. I tare the scale at the primed case weight and then put powder in the case with the funnel and weigh it again. Then I add or remove powder until I hit my target. It’s slow but precise (at least as precise as the scale).

Thanks for the powder recommendations. I have used H335, Benchmark, Tac, H4895, IMR 4064, Varget, and now RE-15 in the past in 223 for various applications with varied degrees of success. In looking for a Varget substitute with 69 grain bullets, I think N135 might be about the fastest powder that would fit the bill (especially considering the velocity advantage of my 26” barrel’s length with slower burn rate powders).

I started this thread in case others might be interested in the results of the powder and components I DID try, not necessarily to ask for component or powder suggestions. I could easily add 500-1000 rounds to my barrel’s round count thoroughly working up loads with all the powder and component suggestions I’ve gotten. That sure sounds like fun. I wish I could buy all the different bullets and powder and try and develop loads for all of the combinations. By the time I did, it wouldn’t matter ‘cause I would have to start all over with a new barrel.