7-11 and other stop-n-robs?

[twoblink]

I'm fairly curious, as here in Taiwan, LA is known as the "land of liquor store holdups" as that's what is shown here about LA often on TV. (I see how tough gunlaws have done so much ... NOT! )

But I'm curious, what's the logic behind some of the 7-11's and other "stop-n-rob" as Kaylee calls it, for not encouraging the employees there to open carry? I'm sure most robbers do a sweep first, and so if they see a clerk open carrying, they have got to think twice, or at least pick an easier target, no?

Question I was asked, so I thought I'd ask..

 

[BlkHawk73]

In my opinion, there are just some people that I don't think should have firearms. They just lack the grey matter in the skull to fully appreciate the responsibilty of it all. That said, I feel that a great number of these "stop-n-rob" clerks I see on TV fall into this category.

 

[Greg L]

It's cheaper for the owners to replace a dead employee than pay the liability insurance to have them all armed (or allow some of them armed). Most of the stories that you hear of a clerk at such a store shooting/killing a robber involves the owner or an immediate family member.

 

[angrywalkindude]

Stanton's Grocery

Located at the intersection of Houston Ave. and Edwards St. in downtown Houston is a small conveince store named Stanton's. Stanton's is owned and operated by a chinese family, mom+pop, two sons and a daughter. Every time I would go there I would see pistols hanging out of the back of their of jeans. One evening I asked one of the boys if the store had ever been robbed, he reaches behind his back grabs the pistol lays it on the counter and says "ain’t nobody crazy enough to rob us".

 

[cookhj]

there's a store here in richmond, va that's been robbed twice, and the owner has two confirmed kills under his belt. that store hasn't been robbed in a long time.

 

[Treylis]

I have a friend who works at a 7-11... man, I'd be packing if I worked there. She's never been robbed, but... gah.

I think insurance reasons also play a part in it.

 

[Kodiak AK]

Greg L has it nailed . Heck my cousin got fired from 7-11 because he stoped a hold up .

 

[Greg L]

Greg L has it nailed

Bingo, Greg.

( http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=83695 )
Two in one day, I must be doing something right

 

[Double Maduro]

One reason for no open carry.

Bad guy sits outside and shoots you through the window, then comes in takes the money and your gun.

DM

 

[V-fib]

Before I moved to the country, I used to live in Detroit near Rouge Park. There was a liquor store near the park that was a frequent target of robberies until one of the owners cut a “balcony†into the back wall and sat up there with a loaded shotgun. Then there was a mom and pop Chinese restaurant that had a son as the waiter. Quiet little place. A few years after we moved we came back for a visit and went to the restaurant. The same waiter was there only this time he was waiting tables with a revolver on his hip!

 

[Tom Bri]

I did the late night thing for a while. Carried a little NAA .22 at first, till I saved the cash to get a S&W M19, which I kept next to the register, out of sight. I figured the owner and the cops knew I had them, but nobody ever said anything, me neither. Don't ask don't tell.

The vendors used to come in after midnight to restock the store, and a lot of them carried one thing or another. We used to compare. Some of the other late night guys got robbed, but not me. Maybe luck, or maybe it got around that I had .357 with me.

 

[Treylis]

One reason for no open carry.

Bad guy sits outside and shoots you through the window, then comes in takes the money and your gun.

And so what? The alternative is a hindered, slow draw from concealment against a guy who's already drawn down and has his gun pointing at you? No thanks. I'm fast but I'm not going to play those odds.

Besides, if they're that ready and willing to commit murder, why wouldn't they just assume that the employee might possibly be packing and shoot them anyways? No witness that way, either.

 

[Double Maduro]

Treylis,

The difference is that with the weapon hidden and the bg inside, you have a chance to defend yourself. You also have the opportunity to use your most potent weapon- your brain.

With the gun exposed and the bg shooting from outside, you are just dead.



DM

 

[Quartus]

IOW, SOME small chance vs. none at all.


Lousy choice, but easy choice.






Oh, Greg, don't let it go to your head or we'll have to start monitoring your posts and calling the ones you MISS!

 

[Quartus]

In my opinion, there are just some people that I don't think should have firearms. They just lack the grey matter in the skull to fully appreciate the responsibilty of it all. That said, I feel that a great number of these "stop-n-rob" clerks I see on TV fall into this category

Two IDPA shooters used to work for a 7-11 in L.A. They were fired.


The two robbers were dead.


A pair of double taps from a .45 tends to do that. Each robber got one from each employee.

I heard the tape from the security camera - 8 shots in a hurry, and no misses. Each one double tapped the closest guy, then moved to the next guy.

Nice shooting, men!

And who needs a 7-11 job anyway?

 

[twoblink]

You also have the opportunity to use your most potent weapon- your brain.

Unfortunately, some of the 7-11 employees are the brightest bulbs. BUT..

What if 7-11 had a "everybody packs" policy? I'll bet you that would reduce the robbery count in a hurry.

 

[Chip Dixon]

That'd be great... qualification for 7-11.

I can hear the kids now, "I was going to work there but I couldn't get 4 in the 10 ring in 2 seconds as the owner requires for night shift."

Honestly, anyone who values their job at a convenience store enough to obey their no carry rules needs to reevaluate their priorities.

I worked night shift at a local exxon for a few weeks when my car needed body work and I had no transportation to my other jobs. Damned if I'd leave my 1911 or S&W at home.

I always say if someone tells you to do something stupid, why listen to them? You wouldn't jump off a highway overpass if someone asked you to, so why do something else that can kill you like working unarmed at a convenience store? It's not like they're running you through a metal detector whenever you come to work.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Quote:
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One reason for no open carry.

Bad guy sits outside and shoots you through the window, then comes in takes the money and your gun.
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So how come the bad guys don't shoot all the cops? They carry openly!

 

[Double Maduro]

Vern,

Couple of reasons come to mind.

1. Cops shoot back.

2. A lot of places only have the death penalty for certain crimes, like shooting cops.

3. The cops don't usually sit in one spot all night with the lights on, making them a harder target.

4. Other cops are more likely to hurt you than other stop and rob employees are.

5. Cops don't usually have much money on them. Making the return too small.

I am sure there are more, many more but these are the ones that jumped into my head.

DM

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Quote:
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1. Cops shoot back.
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So do I.

As for the rest, if the intent is to get a gun, then the guy carrying openly is clearly a better target. And cops DO sit still, or follow routines. I've seen plenty of cops in Condition White!

As for the death penalty deterring someone from killing a cop -- I think most authorities agree the death penalty, especially as carried out in the US, with a generation between sentence and execution, isn't any more deterrent than any other stiff sentence. After all, if bad guys were in the habit of thinking 20 or more years into the future, they wouldn't be bad guys -- they'd be doctors, lawyers, or business owners!

I think the proposition, "If they know you have a gun, they'll shoot you first" is simply not tenable -- crooks tend to avoid armed victims, not seek them out.

 

[Double Maduro]

Vern,

This thread is about carrying openly as a clerk in a 7-11. The reason people rob 7-11's is because they think doing so is an easy source of instant cash. If they want to rob you and know you have a gun they will simply shoot you from outside and then rob you.

Since robbing cops is not generaly considered to be a ready source of cash, there is no reason to shoot them.

Quote:
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1. Cops shoot back.
____________________________

So do I.
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Great, I shoot back too. But, it is very hard to shoot back when you are laying on the floor dead.

The first time I want a bad guy to know that I have a gun is when it goes "bang". When I know something he doesn't I have the advantage. When he knows something that I don't (ie. he is going to rob and or kill me) he has the advantage.

The advantage you gain through the fear factor you give up in tactical advantage.

Even if they don't shoot you from outside they will take care of the guy with the gun first. I want to keep them guessing for as long as possible.

By the way, does anyone know what percentage of convenience store robberies involve the clerk being shot or injured?

DM

 

[4 eyed six shooter]

In the city I worked for as a PD officer, we had a 7/11 where the owner killed two armed robbers, at two different times. He had a one way mirror that looked out at the cash register. There was a door that opened in line with the front of the counter. He took the first guy out with a .357 and the second guy with a well placed 12 guage slug to the head. The shooting with the 12 guage splattered blood and brains all over the young girl behind the counter. Poor thing, it was her first day working there. She ran out of the store, never to return. Both shootings were ruled justifiable. 7/11 did not like the publicity, and revoked his franchise.
One thing to always do before going into a stop and rob. Before going in, take a good look thru the window at who is in the store and what is going on. If something does not look right, don't walk thru the door. It's no fun walking into a store in the middle of a robbery. Be in condition yellow anytime you enter a business. It just might keep you alive.
Good shooting, John K

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Quote:
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If they want to rob you and know you have a gun they will simply shoot you from outside and then rob you.
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As the late Finn Aagard was wont to say, "How do you KNOW this to be true?"

All the evidence points in the opposite direction -- stores with multiple employees, armed employees, and so on are NOT robbed with the same frequency, and there is no evidence that I know of that shows an employee becomes a target when he arms himself.

Quote:
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Great, I shoot back too. But, it is very hard to shoot back when you are laying on the floor dead.
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This could be an argument that says, "If you have a gun, it won't do you any good. They'll shoot you first."

Again, I know of no statistics that show an armed clerk is at greater risk than an unarmed one.

 

[Double Maduro]

Vern,

You win.

All I know is that if I am a bg and I know you are armed, and you have something I want badly enough, you will be dead before you know I am there.

People who rob convienence stores are not the most rational thinkers on the planet. You would be better off not expecting them to act in a reasonable manner or in the way you predict they will.

Unless you work in an industry that tracks incidents of conviencence store robberies the fact that you "know of no statistics that show an armed clerk is at greater risk than an unarmed one." doesn't mean much. That is why I asked the question about statistics. By the way, the qauestion isn't about armed or not, it is about "openly armed".

I respect your opinion and your conviction. I just disagree with your opinion.

DM

 

[carp killer]

I might be wrong but I heard that 7-11's policy was like a bank. Just give the sh*tbag the money and try and remember the description of the sh*tbag. Of course some of the Armenian/Russian/Asian gangsters just walk in and execute. It's faster and no witnesses. 7-11 doesn't mention that during the job interview.