7.62*51 vs 30-06

[Mustanir]

I have two questions for the experts:

Is 7.62*51 is exactly the same as .308 in projectile diameter, powder and bore?

Can a 7.62*51 bullet be loaded into a 30-06 shell with the same amount of powder of 7.62?

These might seem naive but due to non-availability of reloading manuals and other allied stuff I wanted to ask for the sake of knowledge

 

[Steve Marshall]

7.62x51 and 30-06 use .308" diameter bullets. Most, if not all, charges for 7.62x51 would be underpowered for a 30-06. If you are worrying about safety, yes. If you are worried about a balanced load, no.

 

[USSR]

As Steve said, they use the same bullets. However, because the .30-06 is a larger case, you will typically use about 5 grains more powder than the 7.62x51/.308 for similar velocities.

Don

 

[medalguy]

You may not have manuals available to you, but thanks to the Internet, you can go to most of the bullet and powder manufacturer's websites and get just about everything that's in the manuals, and it's free. The Reload Bulletin Board is a great place to start. www.reloadbench.com

 

[Remo-99]

7.62x51mm or 7.62nato is for must parts is idenitcal to 308win, same bullet diameter, external case dimensions, often loaded to lower pressures than the 308win, the 7.62x51mm can be chambered and fired in a 308win chambered rifle.

So the components from 7.62x51mm can be pulled down and reloaded in 30-06 if that's what your asking about, although the 7.62 powder charge would be quite light for a 30-06 case(as mentioned).

On the other hand 7.62x39mm has a different bullet diameter of 0.310" or 0.311" as does 7.62x54mmR, in case you come across this stuff cheap, and have ideas.

 

[Mustanir]

I m sorry but I think 7.62*39 is the same caliber used in AK-47 which is a big no here. I was just wondering if I could use 7.62*51 bullets from miss fired service rounds to load 30-06 from the same powder of 7.62 with a little(5 grains) addition.
Thanks indeed,, I got my ideas for next season's hunt,, till then it is enough to keep myself busy with the stuff which my family thinks weired.

 

[rcmodel]

if I could use 7.62*51 bullets from miss fired service rounds to load 30-06 from the same powder of 7.62 with a little(5 grains) addition.

NO.
You have absolutely no idea what powder you are using, and how much pressure adding 5 more grains in a different caliber would add.

It is not safe.
Don't even try it.

rc

 

[ILikeLead]

As Steve said, they use the same bullets. However, because the .30-06 is a larger case, you will typically use about 5 grains more powder than the 7.62x51/.308 for similar velocities.

Don

WHOA!??? Admitting my ignorance of the subject with this question, but does this mean that with the same projectile that a 308 will push said projectile to a similar velocity with 5 grains LESS powder than needed for a 30-06???

If that's the case, what's the use of a 30-06? It's just a powder waster!

(I am having a hard time believing this, but will consult some manuals for evidence.)

Sorry indeed for the thread hijack...

 

[USSR]

WHOA!??? Admitting my ignorance of the subject with this question, but does this mean that with the same projectile that a 308 will push said projectile to a similar velocity with 5 grains LESS powder than needed for a 30-06???

You will note that I used 2 qualifiers: "typically" and "about". But, yes, it's true. Using the same bullet (144gr FMJBT) and powder (surplus IMR4895), my .308 load uses 43.0 grains of powder, and my .30-06 load 49.0 grains.

If that's the case, what's the use of a 30-06? It's just a powder waster!

Ah, but using heavier bullets than are typically used for the .308, you will use that extra powder space for lot's of slow burning powder.

Don

 

[ILikeLead]

Thanks Don, That makes sense that smaller projectiles could be closer in velocity between the 2 cartridges, but when more powder is needed the 30-06 has the space...

Carry On, Gents

 

[Mustanir]

Don what about RC's post,, that has raised suspicions. Although I d be using old military surplus (1962) but do u think its going to be really dangerous,, or I use chronograph with similar load and then increase by a grain more every time till it reaches 3000 fps
But for this I have to wait for at least 4 more months before I get chrono shipped to my country.

 

[USSR]

Don what about RC's post,, that has raised suspicions. Although I d be using old military surplus (1962) but do u think its going to be really dangerous,, or I use chronograph with similar load and then increase by a grain more every time till it reaches 3000 fps
But for this I have to wait for at least 4 more months before I get chrono shipped to my country.

I believe rcmodel's concern was that you asked about automatically adding 5 grains to whatever charge weight was in the 7.62x51 case. You may end up there, but you don't start there. Personally, I would wait until you receive the chronograph and then start at 2 more grains, run it over the chronograph, and go up in increments of 0.5gr until you approach your target velocity or see high pressure signs. Just MHO.

Don

 

[Mustanir]

Thanks buddies,, btw what is normal life of powder, the powder I m expected to use is filled before 1970, do u guys think that it has enough power to put my 30-06 from Rem 721 right on target from 250+ yards

 

[Arkansas Paul]

You're fairly new around here. I've been here for a little while now, and when I started reloading, I came to the people here for advice and opinions. I have learned that when rcmodel says something, it's best to listen. He's a wealth of knowledge on the subject and has probably forgotten more than a lot of people will ever know. It's not smart to second guess some one with his experience.
It's also not smart to go mixing powders, which is what you would be risking by adding powder to existing military surplus ammo.
Why are you this concerned about salvaging powder? Is it that hard to come by where you are? There are dozens of powders suitable for the 30-06. If manuals are hard to find, you can download them.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Mustanir,
The 30-06 is equal to the 7.62X63mm where as the .308 is equal to the 7.62X51mm. 7.62mm = .308" so the projectile is the same in both. The powder charges will be slightly different but for the most part, powders that work well in the .308 Win will work well in the 30-06. Like said above, don't just add 5gr or powder to the .308 recipe and call is good for the 30-06. Always check current load data for each because with some powders adding that much more powder could cause excessively high pressures, unsafe pressures.

The reason both calibers are so similar is the .308 Win was developed for the military to mimic the ballistics of the 30-06 but in a shorted case that would cycle reliably in a full auto machine gun. The rest is history and the .308 Win is a huge success...

 

[Mustanir]

Thanks Paul n CD for ur inputs,, since I m new here so coudnt speculate RCs seniority,
salvaging old powder is the only option here, I live in a country where law abiding people have very little access to liberty. Even getting military surplus is a huge task you ve got to be a general's relative for it. in civil ammo we have only Serbia Pirvi I think. American ammo is so expensive that u wud like to buy another gun instead of 100 bullets. Thats why I inquired.

 

[Ret.CWO]

I have been a hand loader now 50 years. My 30-06 & 308 loads are the same as USSR. I have bounced around the load data in my Manuel's and settled for the one's again USSR uses. I also use the pull down 4895 that I got from Bartlett. Just make sure your trim and OAL are correct.

 

[counterclockwise]

Thanks Paul n CD for ur inputs,, since I m new here so coudnt speculate RCs seniority,
salvaging old powder is the only option here, I live in a country where law abiding people have very little access to liberty. Even getting military surplus is a huge task you ve got to be a general's relative for it. in civil ammo we have only Serbia Pirvi I think. American ammo is so expensive that u wud like to buy another gun instead of 100 bullets. Thats why I inquired.
__________________
Guns for peace.

PRVI is popular here in the US. We use their brass, bullets, fully assembled rounds, etc.
Something you said about comparing .30-06 to .308 (7.62 x 51) made me look up some lab notes in Speer #13, Page 281.

To quote Speer: "We've had callers ask why the 308 velocities shown are equal to or better than some of the 30-06 velocities shown a few pages ahead. They ask if it was a mistake. No, it's real and there are two reasons:

First, a compact case and a higher pressure limit give the .308 an edge with bullets up to 150 grains. Things are about equal with the 165 grain bullets,...".

"The second reason is the sporting rifles we used to record final velocities. Both have 22inch barrels...".
Paraphrasing Speer here: The 30-06 Sporter lost 50-100 FPS compared to the lab's usual standard 24 inch test barrel. The .308 Sporter, on the other hand was consistently equal to or slightly faster than the lab's usual standard 24" test barrel.

All that to say, for the same powder and same action and barrel length, the two cartridge configurations can have very similar performance.

Anyway, I am inspired at your tenacity and ingenuity to get your 30-06 up and running on your reloads, inspite of the impediments. Please tell me the bullet weight and your rifle barrel length, and I will run some QuickLOAD data here to see how a nominal charge from a .308 will [theoretically and if lucky within 10%] run in your 30-06. I think I would start with assuming IMR 4895, as this has a good history here in the US of being used in the older military .30-06 ammo and runs very well in the .308 configuration. Or, maybe you have QuickLOAD there. It is a German software product.

-CCW

 

[Mustanir]

Dear CCW thanks for appreciation (if it was), no access to QuickLOAD, I will try to down load it if available on net. As for my tenacity, I don't have any other option. In fact I will be away till week ends, going hunting for pheasants and Barking deer. Will be right back because there is a lot to learn from you lucky guys.