barnbwt
member
- Joined
- Aug 14, 2011
- Messages
- 7,340
Confused yet?
Having suffered the foolishness of Remington's stewardship of the Pedersen design long enough (R51), I have decided to strike out on my own in search of a pistol capable of reaping its benefits properly. Enter; this hybrid abomination/match made in heaven.
Major points of design:
-1911 frame & components, stretched across the mag well by about 1/8"
-Barrel swapped out with a Numrich conversion in 7.62x25
-Link replaced with a rigid connection twixt barrel and crosspin (fixed barrel)
-Slide with the breechface/block hogged away for the floating breechblock (and lugs removed)
-Breechblock much like an Ithaca M37, cammed by a crosspin in the slide, that locks into the rear of the magwell opening
Minor points of design:
-The 7.62x25 chamber is pure indulgence on my part. I've long pined for a handgun with competitive features in this compelling chambering, but there is nothing doing with current manufacturers. Other than the mag/magwell mods to accommodate the "gifted" cartridge, I hope to avoid any/all modification to the frame (which means the idea is a drop-in action conversion)
-I chose the 1911 in the first place since the frame's design/layout is so similar to the R51/Model 51. Unsurprising, since the latter two guns were contemporary designs from an associate of Browing, himself. More importantly, the 1911 is one of few designs with a solid, meaty block of metal at the back of the magwell instead of a slot, and possesses and excellent trigger (which is not totally unlike the R51's in its sear arrangement, btw). Lastly, the 1911 has perhaps the most wide array of parts available of any gun to make this dream both viable and affordable
What I have so far:
-A muy cheapo Armscorp 1911 complete 3.5" frame assembly with crosspin (300$) (apparently complete 1911's are very nearly as cheap as used individual frame and slide assemblies; I knew you people were all crazy
)
-A muy muy cheapissimo 3.0" not-started ("unfinished" is far too charitable) slide casting courtesy of Sarco (Yeah, I'll probably have to trim the frame, or maybe not; we'll see) for 15$
-A 7.62x25 barrel/link/recoil spring conversion set from Numrich (both a great chambering, and quite affordable for something so obscure at a bit over 100$)
-Cheap 12$ full size 45acp mag from Sarco
Design progress:
-There appears to be plenty of room for a block to attach to the barrel link pin and frame pin to hold the barrel stationary (I think if the lugs are turned down to shank diameter, a press/slide on collar may be viable that's even more secure)
-All parts in the frame assy work properly, and the trigger is surprisingly nice for a cheap gun (almost as good as a standard revolver SA)
-Dust cover on frame is nearly even with the nose of the too-short slide. Not necessarily an issue, but kinda funky looking
-Mag well opening ledge appears almost as large as the R51's, but is steel rather than aluminum (and the Pedersen action does not apply load under full pressure which drops stresses by an unknown factor)
-Disconnector is in a really bad spot on the 1911 for an articulated breech block, but I think it's far enough back from the locking lug/mag well for a rib in the slide to activate it (so as to retain function as an out of battery safety)
-For simplicity of design, I'll be re-using the original recoil guide rod/spring setup beneath the barrel
-Since a barrel bushing slot is hard to cut, I'll be simply using a thread-in fitted bushing that retains a close-out plug for the guide rod. The rod itself will probably be integral to the barrel attachment block piece
-Firing pin will be two piece. The first will be in the breechblock and mechanically returned/blocked by the camming pin through the slide when out of battery. The second will be mounted in the rear portion of the slide behind the breech block, looking like the standard 1911 layout, only 1/4" or so long inside. This way, the bolt can shift up and down without the striking face of the pin needing clearance on the exterior of the slide.
-Slide cross pin will be in the upper 1/3, engaging a ramped notch in the top of the breech block to lift it. A ramped cut at the rear of the pocket in the slide containing the breechblock will push the block's tail down into the locked position
-For ease of feeding and reduced muzzle flip, I will likely mount the barrel parallel to its "dropped" position and mill the slide rail elevation further "up" accordingly
-If the standard blade ejector works, awesome, but I'm also prepared to do a plunger style if it can't work with the moving breechblock (R51 is a blade style, so I'm hopeful)
Pictures!:
First one is my parts, so far. Second is an early drawing of the action conversion concept (with cam pin on the bottom of the block; an idea I have since replaced with the upper-face pin/cam arrangement that allows for smoother underside of the breechblock --good for feeding). Third picture is a hasty paintshop of my parts and how they would fit together. The long barrel will probably be pruned and threaded (fixed barrel = suppressor host) but I may also try for some crazy long-slide-looking-comp thingie since the barrel's weight no longer impacts function. It won't end up 3.0" since 7.62x25 would essentially be a lot of sound and fury signifying nothing at that point.
TCB
Why (those of you who know me know this is a moot question, but here goes);
-Pedersen action is low recoiling, as is 7.62x25 (for what it is)
-1911 has a good trigger, 7.62x25 is very flat shooting
-I have long 1st finger digits, so 5.7x28/7.62x25 grips are more comfortable
-I own no 1911, and won't, since I already own a Hi Power
-I really like the R51, but Remmy won't find its potential
-Because
Having suffered the foolishness of Remington's stewardship of the Pedersen design long enough (R51), I have decided to strike out on my own in search of a pistol capable of reaping its benefits properly. Enter; this hybrid abomination/match made in heaven.
Major points of design:
-1911 frame & components, stretched across the mag well by about 1/8"
-Barrel swapped out with a Numrich conversion in 7.62x25
-Link replaced with a rigid connection twixt barrel and crosspin (fixed barrel)
-Slide with the breechface/block hogged away for the floating breechblock (and lugs removed)
-Breechblock much like an Ithaca M37, cammed by a crosspin in the slide, that locks into the rear of the magwell opening
Minor points of design:
-The 7.62x25 chamber is pure indulgence on my part. I've long pined for a handgun with competitive features in this compelling chambering, but there is nothing doing with current manufacturers. Other than the mag/magwell mods to accommodate the "gifted" cartridge, I hope to avoid any/all modification to the frame (which means the idea is a drop-in action conversion)
-I chose the 1911 in the first place since the frame's design/layout is so similar to the R51/Model 51. Unsurprising, since the latter two guns were contemporary designs from an associate of Browing, himself. More importantly, the 1911 is one of few designs with a solid, meaty block of metal at the back of the magwell instead of a slot, and possesses and excellent trigger (which is not totally unlike the R51's in its sear arrangement, btw). Lastly, the 1911 has perhaps the most wide array of parts available of any gun to make this dream both viable and affordable
What I have so far:
-A muy cheapo Armscorp 1911 complete 3.5" frame assembly with crosspin (300$) (apparently complete 1911's are very nearly as cheap as used individual frame and slide assemblies; I knew you people were all crazy
)-A muy muy cheapissimo 3.0" not-started ("unfinished" is far too charitable) slide casting courtesy of Sarco (Yeah, I'll probably have to trim the frame, or maybe not; we'll see) for 15$
-A 7.62x25 barrel/link/recoil spring conversion set from Numrich (both a great chambering, and quite affordable for something so obscure at a bit over 100$)
-Cheap 12$ full size 45acp mag from Sarco
Design progress:
-There appears to be plenty of room for a block to attach to the barrel link pin and frame pin to hold the barrel stationary (I think if the lugs are turned down to shank diameter, a press/slide on collar may be viable that's even more secure)
-All parts in the frame assy work properly, and the trigger is surprisingly nice for a cheap gun (almost as good as a standard revolver SA)
-Dust cover on frame is nearly even with the nose of the too-short slide. Not necessarily an issue, but kinda funky looking
-Mag well opening ledge appears almost as large as the R51's, but is steel rather than aluminum (and the Pedersen action does not apply load under full pressure which drops stresses by an unknown factor)
-Disconnector is in a really bad spot on the 1911 for an articulated breech block, but I think it's far enough back from the locking lug/mag well for a rib in the slide to activate it (so as to retain function as an out of battery safety)
-For simplicity of design, I'll be re-using the original recoil guide rod/spring setup beneath the barrel
-Since a barrel bushing slot is hard to cut, I'll be simply using a thread-in fitted bushing that retains a close-out plug for the guide rod. The rod itself will probably be integral to the barrel attachment block piece
-Firing pin will be two piece. The first will be in the breechblock and mechanically returned/blocked by the camming pin through the slide when out of battery. The second will be mounted in the rear portion of the slide behind the breech block, looking like the standard 1911 layout, only 1/4" or so long inside. This way, the bolt can shift up and down without the striking face of the pin needing clearance on the exterior of the slide.
-Slide cross pin will be in the upper 1/3, engaging a ramped notch in the top of the breech block to lift it. A ramped cut at the rear of the pocket in the slide containing the breechblock will push the block's tail down into the locked position
-For ease of feeding and reduced muzzle flip, I will likely mount the barrel parallel to its "dropped" position and mill the slide rail elevation further "up" accordingly
-If the standard blade ejector works, awesome, but I'm also prepared to do a plunger style if it can't work with the moving breechblock (R51 is a blade style, so I'm hopeful)
Pictures!:
First one is my parts, so far. Second is an early drawing of the action conversion concept (with cam pin on the bottom of the block; an idea I have since replaced with the upper-face pin/cam arrangement that allows for smoother underside of the breechblock --good for feeding). Third picture is a hasty paintshop of my parts and how they would fit together. The long barrel will probably be pruned and threaded (fixed barrel = suppressor host) but I may also try for some crazy long-slide-looking-comp thingie since the barrel's weight no longer impacts function. It won't end up 3.0" since 7.62x25 would essentially be a lot of sound and fury signifying nothing at that point.
TCB
Why (those of you who know me know this is a moot question, but here goes);
-Pedersen action is low recoiling, as is 7.62x25 (for what it is)
-1911 has a good trigger, 7.62x25 is very flat shooting
-I have long 1st finger digits, so 5.7x28/7.62x25 grips are more comfortable
-I own no 1911, and won't, since I already own a Hi Power
-I really like the R51, but Remmy won't find its potential
-Because
