Clark
Member
No, but I just remembered, I made a 7.62x25mm rifle with a 1903 Turkish Mauser action and stock and a Rem 700 30-06 take off barrel.
I hate converting Mausers to the .223 sized bolt face
7.62x25 Tokarev is obviously a good handgun round...Why isn't it more popular?
- Thread starter hopelessjoe
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No, but I just remembered, I made a 7.62x25mm rifle with a 1903 Turkish Mauser action and stock and a Rem 700 30-06 take off barrel.
I hate converting Mausers to the .223 sized bolt face
mrmeval
Member
Is 2000fps good enough?
"The .223 Timbs is the result of a co-development between Quality Cartridge and Joseph Timbs. It is the American answer to the proprietary .224 BOZ, bringing the CZ-52 into the new millenium. The .223 Timbs is a special loading of the 7.62x25 round for use only in the CZ-52 pistol. It consists of a sabot like the Remington "Accelerator" pushing a 50gr bullet over 2000fps. Concept was for devastating multi-purpose round, useable for small game, varmits, and defense. Accuracy has proven to be on-par with traditional rounds fired from the same pistol, and terminal ballistics are quite impressive with initial tests showing devastating expansion from the varmit-type bullets."
http://www.ammo-one.com/223Timbs.html
http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary_0286-2116571_ITM
"The .223 Timbs is the result of a co-development between Quality Cartridge and Joseph Timbs. It is the American answer to the proprietary .224 BOZ, bringing the CZ-52 into the new millenium. The .223 Timbs is a special loading of the 7.62x25 round for use only in the CZ-52 pistol. It consists of a sabot like the Remington "Accelerator" pushing a 50gr bullet over 2000fps. Concept was for devastating multi-purpose round, useable for small game, varmits, and defense. Accuracy has proven to be on-par with traditional rounds fired from the same pistol, and terminal ballistics are quite impressive with initial tests showing devastating expansion from the varmit-type bullets."
http://www.ammo-one.com/223Timbs.html
http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary_0286-2116571_ITM
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Boarhunter
Member
I would love to see a modern, hi-cap double stack offered in 7.62x25, particularly if offered in SA, cocked-and-locked format.
Boarhunter
Boarhunter
BuntlineSpecial
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dstorm1911 - PM me, please? Where can I get a conversion for a 1911 to take 7.62x25? I'd love to have one, keep an eye out for me, please. Keep me in mind !!
What's not to love, it's a long neck bullet moving fast as/faster than a .357 Mag, without the recoil.
What's not to love, it's a long neck bullet moving fast as/faster than a .357 Mag, without the recoil.
SaMx
Member
rcmodel, the advantage the tokarev round has of the the .30 carbine is that he overall length is shorter. Then you could get ammo commonality between your carbine and pistol.
The Russians had the right idea. Dont know how many of you guys have fired a SMG with a high rate of fire? They are only accurate the first tenth of a second due to climb.
The 7.62x25 in a SMG could be fired at a high cyclic rate and the very light bullet would make it very controllable. I suspect the Russian wanted penetration due the heavy winter cloths the germans were wearing and needed multiple hits for a kill. Thus the ppsh41
The 7.62x25 in a SMG could be fired at a high cyclic rate and the very light bullet would make it very controllable. I suspect the Russian wanted penetration due the heavy winter cloths the germans were wearing and needed multiple hits for a kill. Thus the ppsh41
mrmeval
Member
There were some 1911 vietcong bring backs in that caliber.
http://www.jouster.com/cgi-bin/pistol/pistol.pl?noframes;read=26383
Someone found a barrel somewhere and used a Metalform magazine with it.
http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-119435.html
http://www.jouster.com/cgi-bin/pistol/pistol.pl?noframes;read=26383
Someone found a barrel somewhere and used a Metalform magazine with it.
http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-119435.html
Joe the Redneck
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When you look at handguns .35 and .44/45 cal projectiles fired at moderate speed have been the standard. And in all fairness, they work very well.
When you compare the standard rifle rounds used today compared to what was used 100 years ago, you can see the small caliber/high speed rounds won the race.
Generating high velocity in a handgun is tough. In order to make a small bullet do the same job as a big one, speed have to go up. We are just starting to get to that point. I believe the handgun round will radically chance in the next ten years or so.
When you compare the standard rifle rounds used today compared to what was used 100 years ago, you can see the small caliber/high speed rounds won the race.
Generating high velocity in a handgun is tough. In order to make a small bullet do the same job as a big one, speed have to go up. We are just starting to get to that point. I believe the handgun round will radically chance in the next ten years or so.
tinygnat219
Member
Shoot,
I would buy ANY manufacturer who decides to go with the 7.62 Tokarev in a modern Semi-Auto double stack mag my business, even Taurus. Now THAT's saying something!
I would buy ANY manufacturer who decides to go with the 7.62 Tokarev in a modern Semi-Auto double stack mag my business, even Taurus. Now THAT's saying something!
32 Magnum
Member
Czech M-48 7.62x25mm round out of a CZ-52 pistol, will defeat soft body armor up to most level 2s (the steel core rounds will defeat level 3) and were designed to beat 1/4" aluminum armor plate on APCs out of a HAND GUN, ... and this round (S&B at 1640 FPS) will penetrate NATO kevlar helmets. 9mm will not do any of that out of pistol or a carbine length barrel. FN FIVE-SEVEN is an attempt by the NATO contractors to produce a comparable cartridge for handgun and subgun use.
Here is what I know about the 7.62x25.
1. Accurate. My CZ52 has shot 2.25 inch groups at 50 yards with cheap surplus ammo. Few guns or calibers can do that.
2. Flat shooting. At 50 yards I aim dead on and hit dead on. Over Christmas I was at my parents house and was shooting it at over 150 yards at a sign on a side hill. Hit it pretty regularly once again aiming dead on.
3. Penetrates like crazy. Did a wet pack test with some ammo and decided to fire the 9mm 124gr ball vs the 80gr surplus Tok. (not sure about the weight, I'm guessing really) The wet pack was about 16 inches thick and backed up with several dry catalogs to act as a back stop. The 9mm was stopped by the catalog. The Tok round put a hole about two fingers wide through the catalog and penetrated deeply enough into the ground that I didn't recover it. Brutal.
I think the 7.62x25 is a very versatile and effective round. I would love a modern handgun loaded with HPs. I definitely wouldn't feel at a disadvantage with it. Its like a supercharged Makarov. My CZ52 isn't much of a carry gun. With a few design improvements to the safety and the grips I would carry it without reservation.
1. Accurate. My CZ52 has shot 2.25 inch groups at 50 yards with cheap surplus ammo. Few guns or calibers can do that.
2. Flat shooting. At 50 yards I aim dead on and hit dead on. Over Christmas I was at my parents house and was shooting it at over 150 yards at a sign on a side hill. Hit it pretty regularly once again aiming dead on.
3. Penetrates like crazy. Did a wet pack test with some ammo and decided to fire the 9mm 124gr ball vs the 80gr surplus Tok. (not sure about the weight, I'm guessing really) The wet pack was about 16 inches thick and backed up with several dry catalogs to act as a back stop. The 9mm was stopped by the catalog. The Tok round put a hole about two fingers wide through the catalog and penetrated deeply enough into the ground that I didn't recover it. Brutal.
I think the 7.62x25 is a very versatile and effective round. I would love a modern handgun loaded with HPs. I definitely wouldn't feel at a disadvantage with it. Its like a supercharged Makarov. My CZ52 isn't much of a carry gun. With a few design improvements to the safety and the grips I would carry it without reservation.
Myles
Member
I'd jump on a modern pistol and carbine combination in a hearbeat.
7.62x25 vs kevlar helmet - does what the 9mm, .357, and .45 cannot
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot29_4.htm
7.62x25 vs kevlar helmet - does what the 9mm, .357, and .45 cannot
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot29_4.htm
Joe Demko
Member
Something like a CZ-75 in 7.62 Tokarev would be the absolute shiznit. I 'd own at least two.
In spite of all the hype about the 7.62x25 (aka .30 Mauser), it is in the same power class as the 9x19 (9mm Luger), and pistols made for one will work with the other with no change but the barrel (providing the magazine is long enough).
The Germans converted thousands of captured Tokarev pistols to 9mm with only a barrel change.
Jim
The Germans converted thousands of captured Tokarev pistols to 9mm with only a barrel change.
Jim
Deer Hunter
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The .30 mauser and the 7.62x25 are NOT the same, mind you.
From Brassfetcher.com
http://www.brassfetcher.com/hornady762x25mmJHPs.html
I love this round. As soon as the 5.7 came out, it was obsolete. This round has been doing what the 5.7 might do for years.
From Brassfetcher.com
http://www.brassfetcher.com/hornady762x25mmJHPs.html
I love this round. As soon as the 5.7 came out, it was obsolete. This round has been doing what the 5.7 might do for years.
Firepower!
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Is it 7.63 Soviet? If not then I dont see any chinese submachines being made for these, and where I live get get lots of chinese guns. Most popular round for them is .30.
Ballistic ally they aren't the same but in external dimensions they are virtually the same and I think that was his point. Also remember it is a bit easier to convert to the shorter cartridge than vise versa. "Providing the magazine is long enough" being the key there.
Clark
Member
The dimensions of the two overlap.
I bought a 30 Mauser reamer for chambering 7.62x25mm barrels, simply becuase it was cheaper.
Buck Nekkid
Member
There IS a "modern" pistol chambered in 7.62x25--the Zastava Model 57. Here it is in the Lux version
Unfortunately it's not imported and probably never will be.
RE: CZ 52 Conversions. I have a factory (or importer) conversion in 9mm Para. It shoots fine and the only change in the pistol is the barrel. The 9mm functions just fine with the standard CZ 52 magazine.
Unfortunately it's not imported and probably never will be.
RE: CZ 52 Conversions. I have a factory (or importer) conversion in 9mm Para. It shoots fine and the only change in the pistol is the barrel. The 9mm functions just fine with the standard CZ 52 magazine.
Constantine-p89
Member
Nice, I wonder how much it would cost?
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