I'm getting what is looking like a compressed load from 25.5 gr of IMR 4198. The max load is supposed to be 26.5 gr but that is almost overflowing the case. Has anyone had issues with this brass? I'm familar with compressed loads with .223 but that was noted in the load data that i've been getting from IMR/Hodgden/Winchester.
7.62x39 MFS 2000 brass?
- Thread starter GIJOEL
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Hornady 123 sp .310 bullets. Data from the IMR website. I loaded 25.5 after gently tapping on the side of the tray and getting the powder to settle. If 26.5 is a safe max then I'll load a few rounds .2 grains at a time and look for pressure signs this weekend. The brass seems to have the same case capacity as a few empty steel cases that I pulled bullets from as well as a few pieces of S&B brass that I had laying around.
Reloading data center for hodgdon/IMR/winchester. The site is under hodgdon. The min is listed under H4198 and is 24.5 with the max listed as 26.5, maybe the powder is cut differently? They don't show data for IMR 4198 (I have an old can).
Correct, IMR data is found at Hodgdon's web site.
http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp
Data on the above site is as follows for the 7.62x39
125gr Speer SP, IMR 4198, 24.ogr MAX
H 4198, 26.5gr MAX
Both powders are listed as they are NOT the same powder and load data is NOT interchangeable. If your old can is IMR 4198 then use only IMR 4198 data, which is 24gr MAX according to Hodgdon's web site.
WOW.... no more assumptions for me. I didn't catch that, they REALLY ought to change that name. Thank you.
Yup it can get confusing at times, you will find this same name situation with several other powders, 4350 comes in IMR, H and AA, 4831 comes in IMR and H, 4064, 4895 the list goes on, all different powders with different data but the same name.
Odd...I talked to the folks at Hodgden 2 years ago and the ballistics guy there told me H4198 and IMR4198 are the SAME powders...made in Australia.
Just got a chance to look at the side by side. The two powders are different, the Hodgdon 4198 meters better and smoother than the IMR 4198 as well.
It doesn't matter what they look like...there are two types, standard length and short kernel...both have the same burn rate. Basic lessons in reloading tells us to NEVER try to identify a powder by it's physical appearance!!!!
Hodgdon has been saying the following since at least 1995
By same characteristics they mean it is neither slower nor faster burning...it is the SAME powder!!!
Don't take my word for it though...call Hogden and ask the experts.
Hodgdon has been saying the following since at least 1995
By same characteristics they mean it is neither slower nor faster burning...it is the SAME powder!!!
Don't take my word for it though...call Hogden and ask the experts.
Sorry NO, they are not the same powder and "same characteristics" does NOT mean same powder. It means just that, "same characteristics", but different. Look at their load data, if they were the same, the data would be the same as in the 414/760 data or the 231/HP38.
No, the person you talked to at Hodgdon was mistaken, confused or drunk, call them again and ask, I have and they are NOT the same.
Here is a photo of IMR 4198 and H4198, well it's kind of a photo, A Fotografer I ain't. It's hard to see in the photo, but the H is green and the IMR is jet black.
Since Hodgdons is closed on Fridays I will have to wait til Monday to call them again. In the mean time here is some info for you folks. Thales in AUS makes the 4198 line of powders for Hodgdon and IMR...(Thales markets their own brand under the name of ADI Powders).
Their 4198 line is known as AR2207 and here is their equivalency chart:
AR2207: H4198 Reloader 7 IMR4198 W680 Tu 2000 N200 N130
Since IMR 4198 is no longer made in Canada but made in Australia now along with H4198...does it make any business sense to produce two different powders...especially since Hodgdon owns IMR now?
Their 4198 line is known as AR2207 and here is their equivalency chart:
AR2207: H4198 Reloader 7 IMR4198 W680 Tu 2000 N200 N130
Since IMR 4198 is no longer made in Canada but made in Australia now along with H4198...does it make any business sense to produce two different powders...especially since Hodgdon owns IMR now?
Good question...you'll have to contact them and ask. I posted it because it was interesting. It's their listing as the powder manufacturer..not mine.
On the face of it, one might think their AR2207 powder is packaged for other companies under the names as listed.
Went to ADI's web site and checked out their "equivalent chart". It's nothing more that a burn rate chart. As with all powder burn charts it differs from other powder companies.
This same IMR Hodgdon powder question came up yesterday on another forum, Here is one reply from a fellow reloader.
I emailed Hodgodns and asked them that very question with a couple more thrown in....Here's a copy and paste of that email.....
Our muzzleloading propellants are made in Central Kansas with the exception of GOEX black powder which is made in Doyline Louisiana .
IMR extruded powders are made in Canada (As they always have been) with the exception of IMR8208 which is made by Thales in Australia (used to be ADI)
Hodgdon brand Spherical powders and Winchester powders are all made in St. Marks Florida. As they always have been. BUT, not all Hodgdon Spherical Powders have a Winchester counterpart. Some do – and they have been that way from the beginning.
Hodgdon Extruded powders are made by Thales in Australia.
IMR extruded powders and Hodgdon extruded powders are not the same. They are made on different continents, with different chemicals, with different granule size, have different burn speeds and require different data – as they always have been.
Mike Daly
Customer Satisfaction Manager
The Hodgdon Family of Fine Propellants
Hodgdon Smokeless Powders
Winchester Legendary Propellants
IMR Propellants
Pyrodex
Triple Seven
Goex Black Powder
This same IMR Hodgdon powder question came up yesterday on another forum, Here is one reply from a fellow reloader.
I emailed Hodgodns and asked them that very question with a couple more thrown in....Here's a copy and paste of that email.....
Our muzzleloading propellants are made in Central Kansas with the exception of GOEX black powder which is made in Doyline Louisiana .
IMR extruded powders are made in Canada (As they always have been) with the exception of IMR8208 which is made by Thales in Australia (used to be ADI)
Hodgdon brand Spherical powders and Winchester powders are all made in St. Marks Florida. As they always have been. BUT, not all Hodgdon Spherical Powders have a Winchester counterpart. Some do – and they have been that way from the beginning.
Hodgdon Extruded powders are made by Thales in Australia.
IMR extruded powders and Hodgdon extruded powders are not the same. They are made on different continents, with different chemicals, with different granule size, have different burn speeds and require different data – as they always have been.
Mike Daly
Customer Satisfaction Manager
The Hodgdon Family of Fine Propellants
Hodgdon Smokeless Powders
Winchester Legendary Propellants
IMR Propellants
Pyrodex
Triple Seven
Goex Black Powder
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