Lee's Auto-drum and Stick Powder

[kcofohio]

Over the last few days, I loaded up some 100 8mm rounds using IMR- 4350 and IMR- 4198. The IMR-4350 loads (jacketed) were 52, 53, and 54 gr. The IMR-4198 loads (lead, gas-checked) were 33, 34, and 35 gr.

The 4350 is larger in stick diameter than the 4198. The 4350 also took more attention because of it being a compressed charge, at least for the 53 & 54 gr.

I started with the 4350, and found straight powder throws wasn:t going to be consistent. I found that using the handle of Craftmans "dental picks", which have a hard rubber coating, helped settle the powder in the drum. A steady moderate tap, 10 times, gave me a throw of powder that varied + - .1. I repeated this with the 4198 with the same results.

These are low volume rounds, so I just needed to have a short term technique.

I have never used a baffle. But filling the hopper, and almost emptying it with the 4350, I still was getting consistent weights.

There was a THR member, a couple weeks ago, that was having a consistency issue with either IMR-4166 or IMR-4046. I couldn't locate the thread.

So, for what it's worth, this was my first time with stick powder in the auto-drum.

 

[Load Master]

The only stick, extruded powder I've used with My Lee Auto Drum is IMR4198. It is very consistent on drop. ±.1 grain at most and usually much less. It does better than I can using a short dump and trickle to weight. My chronograph shows my hand trickle at a standard deviation of 21 and same charge dumping with the Lee Auto Drum of 12. Not what I expected, but the measurement is repeatable. These are .223Rem rounds.

 

[kcofohio]

I really didn't give the IMR-4198 a chance with a straight drop. I have 10 loads each using berdan and boxer primers to see if they measure different. Next time I will try that.

4 lbs. of 4350 was given to me. After I use that up, I see no reason to get more.

I should add, I didn't notice any crunching of the powder.

 

[Metal God]

I did some 10 throw test using mulitple powders and IMR 4064 was one of them . I posted the results here a couple of times . I ended up having a .4gr swing

A steady moderate tap, 10 times, gave me a throw of powder that varied + - .1

Is that every throw you tap the measure 10 times ? If so , I would just not throw a powder that metered like that . I'm not sure why but If a powder does not throw consistent with out any extra work , I don't throw it . I've heard of guys using things that vibrate like a tooth brush or small feminine pleasure product and taping or using a rubber band to attach it to the measure . I've heard this works quite well .

 

[kcofohio]

MG, yes, every throw. Hey, it was a cool and windy all weekend.
I have a little over 2 lbs. left of the 4350. And the powder isn't the best for 8mm. I will probably move on to BL-C (2) or something in the next loads.

And for such a limited number loads, I didn't see the need to break open an old phone.

Though it may not make a difference, the 4350 I have was produced in the '70s or earlier.

 

[thomas15]

Load Master,

May I ask, the .223 with IMR 4198 are you shooting this in an AR-15?

Thanks

 

[Load Master]

May I ask, the .223 with IMR 4198 are you shooting this in an AR-15?

Yes sir, Armalite M15 A4, currently with a 18" Wylde 1:8 barrel.

 

[Fire_Moose]

I haven't played with the drum and stick powder a whole lot, but I would think a baffle wouldn't do much because of how much powder the auto drum holds in the cast hopper area.

 

[thomas15]

Load Master

The reason I ask is because I have read quite a bit and many say that IMR 4198 is too fast but I have a bunch of this powder and have found that 22g with a 55g FNJ BT works great in my Saber Arms AR with 1:9 twist. Your post got my attention and I just wanted to verify that's all.

 

[Load Master]

Fire_Moose, I have the Titan Reloading baffle in one of my Lee Auto Drums. Having run with it and without I would say it really isn't needed. I can't really see any difference. This is the LINK to the one I'm using. LINK

Thomas, I have some test loads waiting for the range to zero in on my recipe. I have been working up on IMR4198. I'm currently at 22.2grs of IMR4198 using Hornady 50gr V-Max. Here is an example of 5 shots.

Device ID LBR-0001006
Series No 2
Total number of shots 5

Units velocity fps
Units distances yd
Units kinetic energy ft-lbf
Units weight grain (gr)

Stats Average 3135.19 fps
Stats Highest 3160.07 fps
Stats Lowest 3117.03 fps
Stats Ext. Spread 43.04 fps
Stats Std. Dev 18.79 fps

 

[SARuger]

I run stick powder through the Lee Auto Drum quit often. You will get more consistent throws if you settle the powder into the dump hopper either by the motion of the turret in my case or tapping on the measure when the dump hopper is in the fill position. just three or four taps with your hand. I see very little variance from charge to charge no matter what type of powder I'm using.

 

[noylj]

One critical thing is NOT to ease the handle, but to always use the same speed for power throwing.
Large stick powders were the king of precision rifle for decades and everyone used powder measures and, most, never weighed the charges. They were simply consistent in everything they did.
Stick, flake, or ball: always vibrate the hopper after filling to settle. Always "tap, tap" the handle up and down to keep the powder settled. One can use an aquarium pump or such to continuously vibrate the hopper to keep the powder settled. One can use a baffle and sometimes that improves consistency. For rifles, be sure to let the handle stay down long enough to ensure that ALL the powder comes out of the cavity and into the case (i.e., do not rush).

 

[kcofohio]

noylj, I agree that consistency is key, especially in what I have seen with stick powder. Though with ball and flake, I try to keep the same rhythm for each cartridge.

As for whatever gizmo to use for vibration. A many of times I have had a pause in the process. I would imagine timing would have to be consistent there too.