7.62x39mm Range?

[Panzerschwein]

What is the practical maximum effective range of 7.62x39mm ammo fired from a CZ-527 bolt-action with mid-range optic (5x and below) against:

1. Deer

2. Hogs

3. Steel plates (don't have to worry about ethics)

Let's just say that the ammo will be MOA which is actually possible with one of these guns. Thanks!

 

[ECVMatt]

I would say just about the same as a .30/30. I know you can stretch it a bit further, but you are typically launching a smaller bullet. For my longer range .30/30 hunting I go with the Speer 130 SP which would probably be pretty close. I would say about 150 for deer and 100 for pigs depending upon the size.

 

[Casefull]

250 yards. Especially with a bolt rifle.

 

[Mosin Bubba]

7.62x39 starts dropping like a rock past 200 yards.

 

[Panzerschwein]

Okay, but I am wondering what specific ranges are generally accepted for the purposes listed in my OP.

 

[LoonWulf]

Check out some of the balistics programs, they can give you energy figgures. Personally against softer targets like deer with a hot handload, id be comfortable out to 250. Hogs id want to be inside of 150 on anything larger than say 100lbs.

Ive hunted quite a bit with an SKS, shooting winchester softpoints, i think. I had no issues with terminal performance inside of 150yds, which is as far as i can comfortably hit with iron sights.

 

[Decoy80]

In years past I brush hunted deer with the old Chinese AK I owned at the time. At the ranges I was hunting it was very effective. 85 yards was probably my longest kill shot with it. Most folks laughed at me for carrying it hunting. Hunting these hill thickets here it did a fine job. If they laugh too much just keep the meat for yourself. Good luck

 

[Swampman]

Here are my very rough guidelines.

Steel Plate - 400 to 800 yards depending on wind and plate size.

Deer - 125 to 175 yards depending on wind, shot presented and distance to the nearest fenceline that I don't have permission to cross.

Hogs - 800 to 1200 yards depending on what they're currently destroying and what they destroyed last week/month/year. I might strech that to 1500 yards if they're eating a fawn.

 

[wally]

Like was said, fire up an on-line ballistics calculator and match the trajectory and retained energy numbers to your intended usage, time of flight can be important if the targets might move.

For steel plates, accurate ammo is generally usable until it goes sub-sonic where accuracy usually deteriorates because of the transition.

.308 shooters deal with 30+ feet drops with some loads at 1000 yards and have good success, although when people get serious about it they usually go to something that "shoots flatter".

 

[Corn-Picker]

For me with my CZ 527 in 7.62x39 it's about 125-200 yards.

125-150 is as far as I would dream of shooting with open sights, if conditions were optimal.
170 yards is where it drops below 1000 ft-lbs, which many consider a minimum for deer.
200 yards is where itll drop below 1800 fps, which is the minimum velocity Barnes recommends for the copper bullets I use (~900 ft-lbs at 200 yards).

 

[Sunray]

What bullet weight? What approximate muzzle velocity? What ammo?
Hornady's 123 grain SST with a 200 yard zero(way too far) drops 14.8" at 300. More importantly though is that the energy drops like a brick past 100. Not 200. And not 170.
Winchester's 123 grain Power Point, sighted in at 100, drops 2.6" at 150(no energy figures), 7.6" at 200 and again the energy does too.
Steel plates don't care about energy, but that Winchester stuff drops -15.4" at 250. 26.7" at 300. Probably ok on a pepper popper at 300 if you aim at the top of the plate. And can see the friggin' thing.

 

[Corn-Picker]

What bullet weight? What approximate muzzle velocity? What ammo?
Hornady's 123 grain SST with a 200 yard zero(way too far) drops 14.8" at 300. More importantly though is that the energy drops like a brick past 100. Not 200. And not 170.
Winchester's 123 grain Power Point, sighted in at 100, drops 2.6" at 150(no energy figures), 7.6" at 200 and again the energy does too.
Steel plates don't care about energy, but that Winchester stuff drops -15.4" at 250. 26.7" at 300. Probably ok on a pepper popper at 300 if you aim at the top of the plate. And can see the friggin' thing.

123 grain TSX assuming 2390 fps and 0.275 BC. Double Tap ammo.

 

[fireman 9731]

I have a 527 and shoot it a lot. I have a fixed 2.5x scope on mine. The low power scope limits longer shots but is great for up to 150 yard shooting.

With a better optic, I think that 200 yards is a very reasonable distance for deer and hogs, if you know your hold overs. You could easily be looking at 8 inches of drop, depending on what ammo you are using. The Hornady SST is probably your best bet.

Bigger scopes on the handy 527 detract from the good handling characteristics that make it the dandy little rifle that it is.

Now for steel plates... I have shot to 300 with mine. At that distance, with my 2.5x scope, it was doable, but with about 2 feet of hold over, it wasn't very practical.

 

[M1key]

I might stretch that to 1500 yards if they're eating a fawn.

LOL. That's a visual. Good luck

M

 

[MTMilitiaman]

Depends on barrel length. I know from a 20" barreled SKS pushing your standard 122 to 125 gr bullet at 2350 fps, you drop below 2000 fps velocity threshold necessary to kill like a rifle around 120 yards or shortly thereafter. For absolute effectiveness on game, I'd probably limit my shots to about there.

With a 200 yard zero, this round will drop about 16 inches at 300 yards, where it is still packing 1600 fps or so fps. This means the x39 packs has about the same killing power at 300 yards that a .357 Magnum service revolver has at the muzzle--same bullet weight, velocity, momentum--only real difference is .35 cal vs .31. The .357 Magnum is considered adequate for hunting deer sized game, though most people use a heavier 158 or heavier grain bullet as opposed to the standard 125 gr load used for defense. So with that caveat, you might consider the 7.62x39 effective out to about 250 to 300 yards. I'd probably shoot my chosen load into some water buckets to get a feel for how readily they expand at that range. If it looked like they might still expand appreciably, I might consider calling the round effective on game to that range.
On that note, the x39 goes sub-sonic around 500 yards. That means a 125 gr bullet in the 1100 fps ballpark, which again sound pretty close to something we are pretty familiar, the standard 124 gr 9x19 load. The trajectory is steep. But if you have a BDC in your optic, you could probably consider the round effective enough for combat, defense, steel, and other things for which a quick kill is not an ethical obligation out to about that range.

 

[Varminterror]

What is the practical maximum effective range of 7.62x39mm ammo fired from a CZ-527 bolt-action with mid-range optic (5x and below) against:

1. Deer

I've used the x39 with properly constructed bullets to 250yrds on whitetails. If you can deliver 5" or less group on an irregular target, it WILL kill deer at 250 cleanly.

2. Hogs

Same same - killed lots of piggies with x39's out to 250. Taken a few longer shots on hogs as well as coyotes where I've gotten out to 300+. Some missed the mark, most don't.

3. Steel plates (don't have to worry about ethics)

Depends upon the size of your steel. With a 5x or lower optic, you won't gain a lot of help for precision aiming, but ringing a 24" gong at 600yrds isn't even really considered difficult. Ringing a 10" gong at 600yrds with a 5x scope can be a challenge.

 

[Casefull]

I would not have a problem taking an elk with my ar 7.62 39(16 in barrel) out to 200 yds with a decent bullet, barnes probably. I am always amused about the hand wringing many display about killing a deer. The bullet has to expand, the velocity has to be over 2k, and on and on. They are deer. The average is lucky to be 200lbs. I shot one with my bow last year and the arrow passed through both shoulders. If the OP sets his zero at 200 yds as has been suggested he will be golden for any reasonable distance. Besides the high velocity just wrecks meat.

 

[strambo]

Anyone can answer the "max effective range" question for themselves by first being extremely clear on their goals/minimum acceptable results. Then, applying those criteria to their particular cartridge, firearm and ability. There can be no pat answer to what the max effective range is.

Steel (or any target): What size? What is the range at which your round goes transonic? What MOA can you shoot at a given distance?

If the target is 3 MOA large and you are capable of holding 2 MOA out to the transonic range, then the max effective range would be when the bullet goes transonic and loses stability.

If, the target is 2 MOA and you can only shoot 2 MOA groups out to 400m, then the limit would be 400 regardless of the tranonic range of the cartridge.

I don't hunt, but define the target area, the minimum acceptable energy needed, and your ability to hold an acceptable percentage of your rounds in that target area at range...the intersection of those is the max effective range (the first limiter sets the range).

For example, if the target area for deer is 8" and you can keep 9/10 shots in 8" out to 300, but not beyond (and 9/10 is acceptable to you for hunting), then 300 would be your max effective range on deer...unless the energy is unacceptable at 300. Then, the max would be whatever distance it meets your min energy requirement.

 

[Deaf Smith]

Like the .44 magnum thread, it's more about how accurate YOU ARE and how well YOU can judge range and dope wind.

The cartridge itself can do well past 600 yards.

Deaf

 

[Panzerschwein]

So would you guys say about 100 yards for boars, 150 yards for deers?

I'm just trying to see if a 7.62x39mm bolt gun will have enough range.

 

[Deaf Smith]

It will take that game out to as far as you can put all your shots in a eight inch circle from realistic hunting shooting positions.

If you can off hand shoot eight inch groups at 50 yards and off hand is the way you will shoot, then 50 yards is your limit.

If 100 yards kneeling you can get reliable eight inch groups, and you will take kneeling shots, then 100 yards is your limit.

See the 7.62x39 itself can take that game much farther than most of us mear mortals can do.

So, what can YOU do?

Deaf

 

[Varminterror]

I can't say I believe there is any reason to have a difference in range for deer vs. boar. I've killed both with 7.62x39mm out to 250yrds. That's my mark for both.

Given a rifle which was capable, like the CZ, with a well built bullet and a proper load to keep things tight, I know I'd take a 300yrd shot on boar without blinking. All appropriate range work applied, of course.

 

[Panzerschwein]

I see. I was under the impression that a person would need a .30-06 or .300 Win Mag for those distances. I have also hear 7.62x39mm drops heavily after about 100 yards or so.

 

[LoonWulf]

Shooters proshop has some .311 nosler specifically designed for the x39.
Might be just the ticket. Ive never used them, havent had an x39 chambered gun in a while.
Id like to get a bolty, probably use those and run them hot if they are still around when i finnaly do.

 

[Varminterror]

I see. I was under the impression that a person would need a .30-06 or .300 Win Mag for those distances.

No, you don't need neary so much power to kill deer past 200-250yrds. Heck, a .30-06 or .300win mag will cleanly kill deer past 600, or even past 1,000yrds in the hands of the right shooters with properly constructed bullets (low velocity expansion). The x39 is more than capable of 200-250yrds before the trajectory becomes difficult to manage and could kill deer much farther before the power starts dropping below a reasonable level.

I have also hear 7.62x39mm drops heavily after about 100 yards or so.

Look at the trajectory chart posted in this thread. As an easy point of reference, the round pictured drops 10" at approximately 225yrds. While 10" might seem like a lot, it's really not, in the scheme of things - only 4.4MOA, or 1.23mil. Using a mil-dot reticle, the 225yrd call would be to place the bottom of the 1st dot on the vitals and squeeze it off.

By 250yrds, the drop is 15", again, seems like a lot, but it's only 0.2" per yard at that point, and 15" at 250 is still only 1.7mil. So the call would be to hold the top of the 2nd dot just under the vitals. At 300, showing 25" of drop below zero, that's still only 2.3mil, so the call is hold the bottom of the 2nd dot just a hair above the vitals. So when you consider this trajectory in MIL's, using a mil-dot reticle, life becomes pretty simple.

Equally, a hunter who so desires can dial his turrets to accommodate these drops instead, but given a graduated reticle (mil-dot, Horus, tmr, varmint, B&C, etc etc), the hunter can pick points on his reticle as "hold on" instead of hold-over.

Just gotta know accurate range and know accurate trajectory, then be familiar enough with your equipment to apply the knowledge.