7.62x40WT 300blk and 5.56

[Sentryau2]

What caliber would be your choice if you wanted to shoot from 0-600 meter for man sized targets with the possibility of hunting medium sized game.


can the 7.62x40wt match the 5.56 for range? Trajectory, Impact energy, penetration, ability to punch through cover without deflecting.

 

[okiewita40]

I would take the 6.8SPC with the SPCII chamber and a 1-11 twist.

 

[BigBore44]

^^Ditto... You actually get about 150+fps gain with 110 grn 6.8 over the 7.62.

 

[justice06rr]

For the original question, 5.56 would be be best balance if range is a big consideration. 300BLK is not effective past 300yards IIRC, not sure about 7.62x40.

I'd also opt for the 6.8SPC if hunting is needed. It is the best of both worlds for stopping power and range in an AR15 platform.

 

[Ohen Cepel]

I would stick with the 5.56 but go with a std M16A2 to get more barrel out of it. I think we often would have been better served in the sand if more people had a std rifle rather than the short barreled M4.

 

[Sentryau2]

how is the 6.8spc trajectory compared to that of the 5.56 at around 600 yards? Anyone know of light .308 bullets? (95-10 grains)?

 

[scaatylobo]

5.56 vote here too

I shoot the M-4 platform in 5.56 / 5.45 / 300 blackout.

I would stay with the 5.56 only if ammunition supply AND parts was a consideration.

I am a fan of the 300 blkout since the bullet weight is 110 gr for the lightest .

And 220 for the top end,and the fact that the round was designed to use ALL the m-4 parts except the barrel.

I have not tested the 125 & 150 grainers on soft medium so I wont say they will do what to deer.

But I do plan on finding out.

 

[MachIVshooter]

What caliber would be your choice if you wanted to shoot from 0-600 meter for man sized targets with the possibility of hunting medium sized game.

Man-sized targets, or man-sized creatures at 600 yards? Because if the latter, not only is shooting at medium game past 600 yards reckless for the overwhelming majority of hunters, but it is downright unethical with anything less than a respectable mid-bore, full-power cartridge like the .30-06 or 7mm RM.

If you're talking paper punching out to 600, but hunting only at 150 or 200 yards max, I'd say the .223 with a good hunting bullet (if it's legal in your state). The stubby, light weight bullets designed to function in .277" and .308" caliber AR-15 frames, combined with the low velocities of the cartridges developed for the same, result in rounds with poor trajectories and dismal energy retention at range.

For medium game with a .223, I'd use the 65 Gr. Sierra Gameking, and at least an 18" barrel, preferably 20"-24". And I would absolutely limit myself to 200 yards max on deer sized animals.

Quite frankly, I don't think any of the pipsqueak "intermediate" cartridges belong in the field unless the hunter really understands the limitations and knows how to make ethical kills within those limitations. "Just barely enough" is not a good policy for hunting in any respect.

 

[scaatylobo]

T/C contender .35 rem

I have deer hunted with a T/C in .35 rem for well over 25 years.

That is a very limiting caliber & gun combination - 1 shot PERIOD.

That being the case,I feel qualified to deer hunt with a 300 blkout as that too has many limits even with a followup fast shot.

I see NO reason to game hunt at 600 yards with anything less than a LARGE caliber [ yes ,more than a .308 ] hunting rifle that you are VERY good with.

I will use the match HP in 5.56 for deer ,but the range is under 150 yards - or no shot is taken.And that would be out of a Mossberg MVP bolt gun !.

I agree with the poster above - he is spot on.

 

[Sentryau2]

Man sized TARGETS, 600 yard hunting medium sized game? Maybe if I had a .50 bmg. I'm not into the whole hail marry thing.

I was really wondering about the 7.62x40wt compared to the 6.8spc and how similar the 7.62x40 was to the .300blk. The 5.56 was there for a base of comparison if you will. Through light barriers (wood, glass, sheet metal, lawn mowers lol), for punching holes in steel and punching paper at around 600 yards.

can the 7.62x40 match the 6.8 for range? Or does it develop a rainbow trajectory like the .300blk at 600 yards?

 

[MachIVshooter]

I was really wondering about the 7.62x40wt compared to the 6.8spc and how similar the 7.62x40 was to the .300blk. The 5.56 was there for a base of comparison if you will. Through light barriers (wood, glass, sheet metal, lawn mowers lol), for punching holes in steel and punching paper at around 600 yards.

The 5.56 still wins in all categories. It's higher velocity will allow it to penetrate hard barriers more effectively, and it's ability to use higher B.C. bullets at higher velocities will make it a better performer for target shooting at 600 yards.

The other two really only shine where range is more limited, barrels are shorter, and the objective is damaging a living target. 5.56 does need more velocity to inflict the same kind of wounds on an enemy that the larger caliber rounds will, so it is hampered by short barrels.

As for deflection, be careful not to buy into that argument hook, line and sinker. Even a .50 BMG deflects pretty easily. All conical bullets will start to tumble and turn base-forward when they are upset. Spitzer rifle bullets are more prone to this than blunt handgun rounds.

 

[68wj]

Man sized TARGETS, 600 yard hunting medium sized game? Maybe if I had a .50 bmg. I'm not into the whole hail marry thing.

I was really wondering about the 7.62x40wt compared to the 6.8spc and how similar the 7.62x40 was to the .300blk. The 5.56 was there for a base of comparison if you will. Through light barriers (wood, glass, sheet metal, lawn mowers lol), for punching holes in steel and punching paper at around 600 yards.

can the 7.62x40 match the 6.8 for range? Or does it develop a rainbow trajectory like the .300blk at 600 yards?

Some 6.8 windshield testing (BMW glass) http://68forums.com/forums/showthread.php?37393-informal-windshield-testing-of-6-8-bullets

3/8 steel at 100 yards with 115 grain 6.8 and 300 BO (sorry, couldn't post just the pic)
http://68forums.com/forums/showthre...-made-the-better-choice&highlight=penetration
Or 1/2" armor steel with SSA's AP ammo from an 8.5" barrel



The 6.8 was designed primarily around the idea of usable energy to reach a soft target behind barrier. Lots of anecdotes of glass or massonry barrier causing problems with M855. How much that matters is up to you.

 

[Sentryau2]

Sadly armor piercing ammo that can be used in a hand gun is not legal. Regulations on ammo for law abiding citizens is BS. Thanks for your help guys I'm hoping a bit more info for the 7.62x40 will come out of this thread.

 

[Arizona_Mike]

Sadly armor piercing ammo that can be used in a hand gun is not legal. Regulations on ammo for law abiding citizens is BS. Thanks for your help guys I'm hoping a bit more info for the 7.62x40 will come out of this thread.

The law and even worse interpretations of it are BS but the law is not likely what you think.


Possess AP ammo: Legal
SELL AP ammo: Legal
BUY AP ammo: Legal
SHOOT AP ammo: Legal
MAKE AP ammo: Illegal: 18 USC sec. 922(a)(7)
IMPORT AP ammo: Illegal: 18 USC sec. 922(a)(7))

7.62x40mm is more powerful than 7.62x35 but not as flexible with respect to bullet length. If you want to shoot subsonic, go with the 7.62x35mm. Your 600 yard criteria pretty much rules out subsonic, so there is no advantage to 7.62x35mm.

Muzzle Energy:

7.62x40 WT (16” barrel)
110gr: 2534FPS Muzzle Velocity and 1569 Foot Pounds of Energy
125gr: 2463FPS Muzzle Velocity and 1684 Foot Pounds of Energy

5.56 Nato (16” barrel)
55gr: 3150FPS Muzzle Velocity and 1212 Foot Pounds of Energy
62gr: 3000FPS Muzzle Velocity and 1239 Foot Pounds of Energy
77gr: 2750FPS Muzzle Velocity and 1293 Foot Pounds of Energy

7.62x39 (16” barrel)
123gr: 2320FPS Muzzle Velocity and 1470 Foot Pounds of Energy

6.8 SPC (16” barrel)
110gr: 2550FPS Muzzle Velocity and 1594 Foot Pounds of Energy

300 BLACKOUT (16” barrel)
125gr: 2275FPS Muzzle Velocity and 1436 Foot Pounds of Energy

NOTE for Handloaders: Once a 7.62x40 WT case has been fired once it will be fire-formed and provide approx 1gr additional powder capacity and the potential for approx 25-50FPS more velocity at comparable pressure levels.

Mike

 

[Sentryau2]

I figured it was something like that as its still legal to buy .30-06 black tip pulled bullets and reload them. Tho I am assuming it would be illegal to make just the projectile and sell them correct? I still think that its BS most rifle bullets zip through police vests anyway, and push a rifle round fast enough it will eat a hole in steel. I'm not sure there is a vest out there that could stop a .50 cal, or prevent a .338 lapua or .338 edge from causing enough force to rupture organs

 

[MachIVshooter]

Sadly armor piercing ammo that can be used in a hand gun is not legal.

That's not exactly right. AP ammo designed and intended for a handgun is illegal, but AP rifle ammo is perfectly legal to possess, so long as you don't use it in a handgun so chambered.

There's a lot of grey area in that, though, just as some of the constructive possession issues. I sure wouldn't want to be caught with AP rifle ammo in my possession if the only firearm I owned that was so chambered was a handgun, kinda like it's a little risky to have a pistol/SBR AR upper lying about if your only AR is a title I rifle.