7.62x51 in bolt action

[ldlfh7]

I have a savage 11 in 308. Have been seeing a lot of mil surplus 7.62x51 on the market as of lately at a pretty good price. I seem to remember that shooting the nato version results in a hard to open bolt after firing. Is it safe to shoot in the savage? Is the hard to open bolt a sign of high pressure? Is this ammo going to damage my rifle?

 

[Art Eatman]

First time I've heard of "hard to open". People shoot this stuff quite regularly with no problems.

 

[vtsteve]

There are a few things that can cause this to happen, and one of them is excessive pressure. If that is the case you will also see things such as flattened primers, or other signs of overpressure in the case head.

Another possible cause is a rough or dirty chamber, compounded by possibly dirtier old surplus ammo. The presence of a lacquer or other coating on the cases will sometimes cause them to "stick" in the chamber.

It may also help to make sure your bolt is properly lubed, particularly the locking lugs.

 

[Varminterror]

If a cartridge closed easily and but was hard to open after firing, then yes, that is a sign of excessive pressure. It may not be excessive enough to cause immediately destructive damage, but it will accelerate wear, and generally, it's not great for the rifle, let alone being problematic for repeated shooting in the field.

Now - there's a lot of BS speculation by folks online who like to split hairs between 308win and 7.62x51 NATO - read the CIP spec OR the SAAMI spec and you'll see differences in chambers, but they exaggerate the difference in the two, likening it to the difference in 5.56 NATO and 223rem - which is NOT a similar comparison. You may or may not experience pressure issues with mil-surp stuff - if you try a box and find sticky bolt lift, then you'll know it's a real problem for your real rifle.

 

[Dill]

I've always fired them interchangeably, with the usual checks for pressure.

 

[dh1633pm]

I have as well. Don't like to shoot anything corrosive or steel (bullets not brass) in my nice hunting rifles.

 

[jmr40]

If anything 7.62X51 is loaded milder than most commercial 308 loads. It won't hurt a thing.

 

[Jim Watson]

There are different reasons for ammunition to be sold surplus. It might be a production overrun. It might be over age. It might have random defects. In the latter two cases, "Who cares, Americans will buy anything cheap."

 

[Sunray]

"...People shoot this stuff quite regularly with no problems..." And have been since long before there was an internet to tell 'em .308 and 7.62NATO were different cartridges.
"...a lot of mil surplus..." Lot of which is not milsurp at all, but commercially loaded ball in steel cases with steel jacketed bullets.
Wouldn't use steel cased ammo, if that's what you're looking at, just because of the lack of accuracy, myself.

 

[Jackal]

7.62 Nato is loaded to a lower pressure than commercial .308. You will be fine.

 

[bfoosh006]

Really it will come down to your chamber... if your chamber is on the "minimum" spec size 1.633 or less... you could get sticky extraction.

The reason Most "Mil-Spec" chambers are Looser, they might even close on a "No-Go" gauge... is to allow for dirty weapons, variances in 7.62x51 ammo production etc.. ultimately Uncle Sam needs those weapons to chamber EVERY time.

Part of the reason for there even being a Field gauge in .308 / 7.62x51 is to show excess chamber headspace...

 

[MistWolf]

You'll be fine shooting milsurp in your bolt action until the bolt sticks. If the the bolt starts sticking, stop shooting that ammo in your rifle, regardless of what ammo it is.

 

[Slamfire]

Is the hard to open bolt a sign of high pressure?

Probably. This ammunition was surplused because it was no longer safe to store or safe to issue. One problem with old ammunition is that as gun powder ages, combustion pressure rise.

Is this ammo going to damage my rifle?

If the over pressure indications are genuinely from the ammunition, than it could. Rifles and pistols have been blown up with old ammunition. See the pictures of the shattered Garand in post 37 of bought ammunition.

I have been telling the shooting community about the problems of old gunpowder for years. I am going to tell you, it goes in one ear and out the other. Shooters really, really, really, don't want to believe that their ammunition is not immortal. I think it comes down to denial. They believe they are going to live forever, and therefore their stash of ammunition also has to be there forever. You can understand the logic. "I am immortal and so is all of my stuff." Anything that contradicts this basic desire is erased from their memories.


Recent threads where I have commented about the problems of old gunpowder:

Ammo storage
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/ammo-storage.826681/#post-10655071

Bought ammo

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/bought-ammo.827113/page-2#post-10656970

Now if the ammunition is in fact causing over pressure conditions the best thing to do is pull the bullets and dump the powder. Inspect the cases, look for signs of corrosion. If the cases look OK, load with nice new gunpowder and shoot a few. If you do not experience case cracks or case separations, then it is probably OK. The release of fuming nitric acid gas from gunpowder embrittles brass. If the fired brass has an abnormal number of cracked case necks, pull the bullets from the reloaded stuff, save the powder, and dump all the cases. If you get hurt firing cheap old ammunition, whatever ever savings you might have had will be offset by your medical deductible. Offset by orders of magnitude, it will be an exponential difference.